Blogger Mark Butterworth asked a lot of pundits and bloggers what Truth is. He's now posted the replies and his comments. My answer was that "truth is a statement that accurately describes reality, allowing for the inaccuracy of human language and thought." Mark finds that somewhat circular - truth is what is true. His own definition, which he elaborates at the end, is religious - God is Truth.

In the same way that 1+1 = 2 is absolutely unfalsifiable (you can never prove this wrong), and that a perfect syllogism is similar (All men are mortal. Socrates is a man, therefore Socrates is mortal.) in quality, we want to know how this can be. The absolute perfect premise which is also unfalsifiable is this: God is Truth.

Atheists and empiricists want to say there is no God, or that such a person is unproveable, but there is no other premise made by anyone which does not suffer from inconsistencies in logic and in contradiction. Only the premise of God fails to lead to contradiction or inconsistency.

I'll grant that my definition is circular. "Reality" and "accurately" can't be defined without a concept of truth, nor can any word be defined without other words. But I don't see how his definition is less circular, only more elaborate and with longer words. It's also, I believe, wrong. You can't prove God with words, (and if so, which God?). Well, actually you can - you can prove anything with words, and philosophers have been doing so for millennia. They were usually wrong. The historical record is against pure reasoning as a way to understand the world, and in favor of observation and science.

I won't get bogged down in "how do you know that reality is real, or that truth is true?", which is where this kind of debate often leads. I'm postulating that reality exists, and that most of us observe that reality through flawed senses, and process it with flawed analytical skills. I'm postulating that because, as a product of billions of years of evolution, I'm born with a mental concept of reality, without which my ancestors would have been eaten by creatures not so handicapped. That concept has served me well so far, (either that or somebody's doing a very good job of convincing me of it), so I'm sticking to it.

That's why I appended the second part of my definition, "allowing for the inaccuracy of human language and thought". The inaccuracy of language is obvious. Can the statement "my keyboard is black" be a truth when uttered by both me and you, when the shades of black on our keyboards are different, and a species equipped with different eyes would have seen colors we can't? It can if we accept some linguistic flexibility, if we take a few useful shortcuts. Language is primarily a tool, and philosophers who refuse to take useful shortcuts will end up writing long dissertations about how "my keyboard is black" is a meaningless statement, while the rest of us shake our heads and get on with our lives.

Then there's the inherent inaccuracy of human thought, which is more tricky, and out of my league. What aspects of reality are brain neurons able to represent? Is what's red to me red to you, or do we just use the same word for it? Again, there are useful shortcuts to be made. (The keyword is "useful".)

These are inaccuracies of language and thought we can't escape, they're inherent in our natures. But there are others we can escape, at least in theory, but usually don't. They're the ones that worry me. The more I learn about how the human mind works, the more scared I get. And the more vary I get of anyone who attempt pure reason as a way to understand reality, with minimum feedback from that reality. We're not truth machines. Being a truth machine doesn't pay off, evolutionary speaking. We don't merely observe reality, we infer from it, using hard-wired brain code designed primarily for the purpose of survival and reproduction.

Logical illusions, bias, self deception, irrational beliefs, they're all caused by flaws in our brain software. The "flaw" is often by design, or a byproduct of a useful feature. If a three second algorithm works well enough 90% of the time, and one that works 100% of the time takes three hours to compute, the tradeoff is worth it in a world of fast and lethal enemies. And if the truth makes you vulnerable, a comforting illusion ("I'm the center of the universe") may be an advantage.

Our mental flaws stand in the way of our search for truth. My primary interest is in how to bypass them, when possible, (and how to identify them when not). It's a bad priority to tackle the statements "The situation in Iraq is improving" or "God exists and speaks through the Bible" like Arnold Rimmer tackles physics in Red Dwarf ("In answering the question, 'What does the red spectrum tell us about quasars?', there are various words that need to be defined. What is a spectrum, what is a red one, why is it red, and why is it so frequently linked with quasars?") Better to investigate whether the facts support or contradict the statement, and what biases may be at work in those who agree/disagree. This is less fun than discussing epistomology over a bottle of whisky, but more useful.

Bjorn - the problem with your definition is that you limit truth to being a statement. There is lots of truth that hasn't been articulated yet - e=mc^2 was no less (or more) true before Einstein formulated it.

I think truth is something we seek but never quite attain perfectly, though (often) well enough for practical purposes.

As for God being Truth, that's a matter of faith, imho.

Philosophical discursions give me headaches. Nevertheless ...

Butterworth's definition comes from orthodox Christianity. In the Gospels, Jesus says "I am the way, the truth, and the life". As a Christian myself, I accept that. But even for a Christian, there can be an epistemological need for a "working definition". I like your definition. I might tweek the qualifier slightly, i.e., "allowing for the inaccuracy of human language, reason, and observation".

Btw, I looked in Simon Blackburn's Oxford Dictionary of Philosophy to see what he says. He gives no explicit definition.

My statement does not come from orthodox Christianity since it can be made equally by a Jew (and a Muslim, perhaps).

The statement is derived from the tradition in Christianity of logical proofs for God from Aquinas (Five Proofs) and Anselm among others.

I will post a rather new and excellent post on my blog for further consideration if you should like to test its logic.

There is the basic logic of saying that God is self-evident which American Founders used in the Declaration of Independence; and then there is the logic of asking atheists and scientism believers - how do you get something from nothing, or life from non-life. No atheist or empiricist can answer those questions.

To assert there must be a God takes no faith at all, only logic. To believe that God is devoutly concerned about you may take some faith, but generally it takes an encounter.

If God exists, and thus a real being (person), than it is surely within the realm of possiblility that such a person can manifest himself to others. If so, then it doesn't take faith to believe in God, it only takes a meeting, which is the basic Christian message.

The idea that Truth is a quality which only a person can manifest is irrefutable, but not without problems for it begs further questions about the nature of that person which can lead to paradoxes and contradictions.

Actually, the framers did not say that the existence of God was self-evident - they said that it is self-evident that all men are created equal, and that their Creator has given them certain rights, etc. Yours (and my) sense is that this Creator is Divine.

I think the issue is what you accept as proof for something that is true. It is easier to accept that there was some "prime mover" that created something out of nothing (if you can accept that there ever was "nothing", which is beyond our imagination), than it is to believe something in particular about the prime mover.

When people ask whether they or I believe in God, I often say that it's less interesting to discuss the existence of God than what we believe about God. Maimonides (who Aquinas seems to have learned a lot from), pointed out that any positive assertion about God limits God - it is less accurate to say that God is One than to say that God is not none, and is not many. I can understand that self-proclaimed atheists reject anthropomorphic ideas of God, and I suspect that they'd be willing to go with the notion that God's nature is by definition beyond our human comprehension, and that all we can work with is to discern God's will.

The same thing goes for the notion of encounter. The revelation at Sinai, for example, must have been the kind of experience that left no doubt in the minds of those there that they had experienced something a Revelation.

It might be an interesting philosophical point that God is the ultimate truth, but it's hard to make it practical unless faith is involved.

Amusing. The ontological "proof" of God, in a rather primitive form, posted in the 21st century as if it was actually a serious argument.

Mark: "There is the basic logic of saying that God is self-evident which American Founders used in the Declaration of Independence; and then there is the logic of asking atheists and scientism believers - how do you get something from nothing, or life from non-life. No atheist or empiricist can answer those questions."

There's no logic involved in your proof, only a play with words - which is all any philosophy will ever accomplish unless connected to reality, (which is the purpose of science). And the above paragraph doesn't hang together at all. You're saying that if you can't declare the existence of God as self-evident, then you _must_ have a proven scientific theory of how life and the Universe was created without him, and vice versa. That's shoddy logic, and good evidence if anyone needs it for why science is necessary to weed out word-plays from good thinking.

"If God exists, and thus a real being (person), than it is surely within the realm of possiblility that such a person can manifest himself to others"

Another example. (Which God, why a person, and why does the power to manifest follow from that?)

As I don't know you, I don't know if this applies to you, but my experience with attempts to prove religion with science and logic is that they're rarely any more than rationalizations. "I believe, ergo it follows that God's existence is logical". And the difference between most believers and the very smart ones is not that the smart ones have _better_ (more logical) proofs of God. They only have more _impressive_ ones, a result of smart people having to work harder to fool themselves.

This goes for more than religion - all human viewpoints are afflicted of rationalization, whether religious, scientific or political - but religious beliefs are among the few to explicitly reject science as the solution to this problem. Many believers will accept that scientific medicine works better than magic, that it's better to create technology with science than with faith, but when it comes to the core of their own belief, suddenly a leap of faith is required, and science is simplistic. But human reasoning is untrustworthy enough as it is without deliberately ignoring all known ways to improve it.

Jan: I, too, was thinking about that. Anybody remember Anselm of Canterbury...? See here. Interesting, the next thing will be the nominalism/realism debate ;)

Sorry, here's the link:

http://www.philosophypages.com/ph/anse.htm

I just wrote a post a few days ago which touched on the meaning of Truth over at HipperCritical. The title of the post is "Is Nature Natural?" here

I read a fascinating interview with John Nash recently. They asked him if he was religious. He said, I had all kinds of religious delusions, when I was mentally disturbed, I thought I was the Messiah, or Zarathustra. You risk going nuts when you think too much about religion especially if you're a scientist or rational-minded person and try and keep the two things separate. He also said politics is a waste of time except for politicians. And that madness is only a matter of legal definitions. There, that's three truths for you, at least, in my arbitrary non-infallible opinion. :)

Two comments here:

First, to Bjørn - now that I think about it, your definition of truth is really a workable definition of knowledge. As I pointed out before, truth exists independently of our ability to articulate it in language (and is therefore not limited by it); but knowledge does have those limitations.

Second: there are religious people who claim that any contradiction between science and religion must be resolved in the favor of religion. On this basis, they reject evolution, archeological and literary evidence for historical events. etc. But there are also scientific people that make the opposite assertion: that since science presents us with no proof of the existence of God, and since scientific findings often disprove certain religious beliefs, then religion is humbug and science rules supreme.

Both are equally wrong. Religion doesn't, nor should it, serve the same purpose as science. There are plenty of extraordinary scientists who are/were religious, and of course scientists who weren't. All these efforts to scientifically prove the existence of God begs the question, since God by definition (whether by God's or ours, is another question) exists outside of nature.

Let me be more specific: it seems to me that all humans strive to find meaning in their lives. Whether we write blogs, compose music, try to predict the relative stock performance of one company over another's, etc., we do these things because they appeal to some higher order of our existence. You can choose your own explanation for what this - you can say it's our own instinct to do these things, just as birds fly south in the fall; or you can say it's a sort of divine inspiration. But the point is, you choose your explanation - noone can say that one explanation is wrong and another right.

The irony, I think, is that most atheists do believe in free will. Now free will (and the presence of evil) present a paradox for religious people, as well, but it's less of a paradox - they take it as a matter of faith that God gave humans free will for a very specific reason, and that God chooses not to revoke that "gift." Read Italo Calvino's Cosmicomics for an entertaining discussion on this...

man, you people need to go out and get drunk and laid.

* Both are equally wrong. Religion doesn't, nor should it, serve the same purpose as science. There are plenty of extraordinary scientists who are/were religious, and of course scientists who weren't. All these efforts to scientifically prove the existence of God begs the question, since God by definition (whether by God's or ours, is another question) exists outside of nature. *

Well, Leif, that of course keeps science polite to religion, but it is not historically really true, and neither is it very rational. God was pushed outside space and time as a result of not being found anywhere inside it. Like a ghost is under the bed when you are a child, and disappears in a puff of superstition when you grow older and get reasonably familiar with what is under your bed, we should really expect god to disappear in similar circumstances, but deities have obviously left a more lasting impression on humanity.

The problem is that God has been pressed into smaller and smaller gaps, as scientific knowledge has advanced. When you come to a point where science knows a lot about the universe and its origins and development, and there is less space for any gods than ever before, it is time to realise it is an old superstition people cling to because they are nostalgic.

When there is absolutely zero evidence for the existence of any God or gods, the only rational conclusion is that there exists no such thing. In other situations in life, sane people don't believe what there is no evidence for. The absense of contrary evidence is no more support for theism than the absense of evidence for invisible green unicorns makes that a sane belief.

Leif Knutsen, New York

"The irony, I think, is that most atheists do believe in free will."

That is ironic, seeing as mind must be a separate entity, distinct from brain, in order to be free of the constraints of determinism & causality. In essence, there really can be no free will without an independent "mind" or "soul". And that really is the irony. The atheist must make a "leap of faith" about free will, just as the believer does.

And that's not the only leap of faith they need to make. Jan, your thesis that as we discover more about the universe the realm of G-d shrinks into oblivion could only be apparent to an atheist. If the 2nd law of thermodynamics is to have any meaning, then an infinitely complex universe that screams of a highly ordered nature would point a believer more towards a supreme being, rather than away from it.

Take the example of evolution. Most of us who believe in G-d do not dispute that evolution is responsible for the variation in the species. However, most of them also understand that what Stephen Gould has to say about Random Mutation being the shaper of evolution is purely theoretical. It's a good theory based on some good science and reasoning, but it is not "proven". Just as likely as "random" mutation is the possiblity that there is some yet undiscovered force that is responsible for the direction that evolution moves. If we go exploring the universe, and we find no other life there, then I would agree with you. The more we discover the smaller the realm of belief becomes. But if we do discover life on another planet, then our "accident" becomes a coincidence. If we start discovering life on many planets, then the coincidence starts to look more like a law (like gravity, strong nuclear forces, etc.) rather than an accident. And a law that consistently organizes itself into life argues for rather than against a supreme being.

Evan: You can believe in the illusion of free will, without believing in free will as a metaphysical concept. I do. The brain is just a very complex decision-making device, and the hard thing to explain is not the decision-making part, which is just a matter of programming, but consciousness.

You're right that theories that involve evolution are difficult to prove, because of the time frame. You can put them to the test, however, by making predictions about the effects evolution would have on a given species in a given environment, and see whether it is so. In the end, it comes down to either attempting to use science to explain nature, (in which case evolution is your best bet), or to believe in a God who has put a suspicious amoung of effort into making his work look like the product of natural forces.

And for all the attempts to turn religion into a science, it is suspicious that the skepticism aimed at evolutionary theories (a good thing!) is not mirrored by similar skepticism towards their own beliefs. Rather, the logic appears to be that as we don't know for sure, we might as well believe in anything.

"And a law that consistently organizes itself into life argues for rather than against a supreme being."

No it does not. If we discover other planets with sentient beings who have two legs, two arms, and a head on the top, you will have a point. But there's nothing earth-specific whatsoever about evolution. Even a rare combination will occur often if the dice is thrown often enough.

Bjørn Stærk

"Evan: You can believe in the illusion of free will, without believing in free will as a metaphysical concept. I do. The brain is just a very complex decision-making device, and the hard thing to explain is not the decision-making part, which is just a matter of programming, but consciousness."

1) I was commenting on a previous post, where the writer had indicated that many atheists belieive in free will. I found it ironic because of the normative pairing of concepts:

Determinism::Atheism
Free Will:: Belief in a Creator Being

2)Note your language: "You can BELIEVE in the illusion of free will..." What does that mean to "believe in an illusion of free will". Does it mean that a person has come to the conclusion that free will is an illusion? If so, how does one go about proving that it is an illusion? If you cannot prove it, does that mean an atheist must make a "leap of faith" here? I'm not trying to make any specific point here. Just positing some questions--some food for thought.

"You're right that theories that involve evolution are difficult to prove, because of the time frame. You can put them to the test, however, by making predictions about the effects evolution would have on a given species in a given environment, and see whether it is so. In the end, it comes down to either attempting to use science to explain nature, (in which case evolution is your best bet), or to believe in a God who has put a suspicious amoung of effort into making his work look like the product of natural forces."

You misinterpret what I'm stating. I am not saying that evolution is a theory. It is a fact. With the exception of some "creation scientists", most scientists understand that species DO evolve over time. What is theoretical about evolution is not WHETHER it happens, it is HOW it happens. There are many competing theories in evolution. Some of the older ones (such as Lemark's theory) have since been discredited and are now coming back (Quantum Evolution) into circulation again. Neo-Darwinism is completely entrenched in the scientific and loath to change. While a combination of Natural Selection/Random Mutation may be the best explanation of why creatures evolve right now, we should be ever critical of just letting these ideas float by without challenge. Personally, I find the "random mutation" part to be a just bit of a cop out. To me (I speak for nobody else) it seems like we're saying, "We don't know exactly why cell mutation occurs the way it does, but it's completely random, I tell you!" But is it random? If you ask a 6 year old to tell you, what's the next number in the sequence(1, 3, 5, 7, 11, 13, 17, 19...), he probably won't be able to tell you. It doesn't mean there aren't rules governing that sequence, it just means that the six year old doesn't have the tools to determine what they are.

"And for all the attempts to turn religion into a science, it is suspicious that the skepticism aimed at evolutionary theories (a good thing!) is not mirrored by similar skepticism towards their own beliefs. Rather, the logic appears to be that as we don't know for sure, we might as well believe in anything."

You're pretty much saying what I believe, EXCEPT that I believe that both the creationists and the neo-Darwinists are resistent to dealing with this issue. It seems like the neo's refuse to look for any force governing supposedly random mutation for fear that it may make life look like "not so much of an accident after all". The creationists won't budge from any theory that doesn't have everything being the result of design.

"No it does not. If we discover other planets with sentient beings who have two legs, two arms, and a head on the top, you will have a point. But there's nothing earth-specific whatsoever about evolution. Even a rare combination will occur often if the dice is thrown often enough."

I partially agree with you here, and I must back peddle a bit. You're right that beings that end up looking (and thinking) roughly like us might be offer better "proof" of a universe of design. However, if we visit 1000 planets and everyone of them has life on them, I would beg to differ with you. 1000 out of 1000 doen't seem like chance any more. Not that it can't be chance, it just seems less likely to me, that's all.

Evan,

You have misunderstood what "random" means respecting to mutations. It means that the probability of a mutation in a loci is not related to fitness.

Since mutations ultimately depend on radioactivity, there probably is an element of it being truly (as opposed to apparently) random, but that is pretty irrelevant to the theory of evolution.

How you get your misunderstandings to be a problem for atheism is another question entirely. Your reference to SJ Gould was almost cute.

A lot of this stuff is elementary theology, guys. Atheists can no more disprove the existence of God than religious people can prove it - if we're honest with ourselves, we're all agnostics with varying levels of doubt. Even Catholic dogma recognizes that religious faith is a matter of belief (which must include doubt) rather than knowledge (which doesn't).

What this comes down to, is what we think the evidence makes most likely, and this is all subject to our prejudice, i.e., whether we're inclined to believe one thing or another.

I certainly don't see it as my job to convince self-proclaimed atheists that God exists, nor do I think it's necessary (lots of "atheists" are perfectly nice honorable people without the help of religion), and I'm not going to start with Jan from Bergen.

But I do think that everyone would benefit from a better understanding of what theism is. Most religious fundamentalists seem to think they have an insider's track of what God thinks about one thing or the other, and they tend to act as if they know (and not just believe) what God's will is. But not all religious people go along with that.

To me, all religions are human attempts to discern a higher order in a chaotic existence that is brutal, unfair, and short. These efforts become religious when we feel that they are being met and confirmed in our actual experience. Monotheism is different from all other theisms in that it holds their is one and only one ultimate purpose behind our existence and our efforts.

As a Jew, I am struck by the fact that the prayers seem to insist that God have certain attributes, as if part of the purpose is to hold up our reality to what God promised and hold the Creator responsible for the Creation.

I'm not affiliated with Reconstructionist Judaism, but an interesting perspective on how "atheists" can still be religious can be found in this overview of Reconstructionist Judaism (written by my friend Robert Kaiser)

http://groups.msn.com/judaismfaqs/ReconstructionistJudaism.msnw

Leif Knutsen, New York

"To me, all religions are human attempts to discern a higher order in a chaotic existence that is brutal, unfair, and short."

Is that a reference to Hobbes' quote from the Leviathan, that by giving power to the individual, life would be "..."solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short."?

It probably is from Leviathan, though not consciously.

International APPEAL: "Everybody should spit in the facial face of Coetzee&Ebadi etc. prized toys,
'cause these chosen instruments didn't reject such kinky fraud, which labeled
Nobel!", comments tv redaction..///International APPEAL: SIGN it just now, please!.. PROTEST NOBEL MASKED CORRUPTION!... PROTEST ongoing THREAT of ORGANIZED FRAUD!.. PROTEST NOBEL
COMMITTEES and collaborated doggies!..///This LAUNDRY MACHINE is a big THERAT
against independent SCIENCE and CULTURE...NOBEL CHARLATANRY is SCIENTICAL MASKED
multi-funcZional polit-PROSTITUTION of JUDAIZED IMPERIALISM.. (Int. English
language version)

**
- Didn't you understand, what you all together witnessed here?! World CULTURE systematical degenerated by the dominaZional
financial provocation lobbies; biggest one of "mouse-trap" is already biggest
effective danger: Nobel prize charlatanry... - Well!.. If COETZEE&EBADI and
other "chosen-persons" were been the true honoured characters, they should
refuse the kinky corrupt payment of the Nobel shurks... - Wow!.. But I can't
understand so easy, Sir!.. This subject smells seriously heavy!.. - This is a
saga, not a bonbon, therefore it's not so easy to understand just at first
suck!... The Saga on the Satellite Kingdoms' stinky culture//Ridiculous and
contemptible attitudes of Nobel shurks&Corrupted Bastards of lobbies&Mammeles of
degradation&freak doggies of the Zionist Imperialist ignominy. - I am
beginning to understand... - You see!.. Call the matters only with their
true names, simply!.. - ?!
**
- An advocate, false muslim Mammele Shirin EBADI won peace prize and a writer
false Humanist J. COETZEE on literature... - Also, you mean, the
Scandinavian Nobel commitees prized a jurist and a writer?.. - Yes!.. But what
is strange, Sir? - Well, I know a true Humanist Jurist and Writer, since
15 years he lives in Scandinavia, works for Human Rights but never get a job,
nor been accepted to an official projects, interviews... This true lawyer, Human
Rights fighter systematical discriminated and still under heavy oppression...
- Incredible!.. What did he? - Nothing!.. Before 15 year he wrote a
little poem, there he criticized the anti-humanist issues and perhaps meaned to
protest the occupation on the occupied Middle East.. - Perhaps? -
Perhaps, means "definitely" according to the talmudic fanatism... And I searched
his poems, foun only on one single line expressed that "my heart is my gift to
the children of Palestine/use it my little heroes, throw it at least like a
stone"... - And than? - Well, he just been registrated by the
Zionist lobbies of Sweden... Theses ridiculous lobbies already manipulating the
authorities against this braveheart human... The chiefs of suh lobbies have
main assertion that when an academician criticizes the anti-Humanist attitudes
it means such perspective is potentially danger against the Zionist
Imperialism... - What!.. Millions of human and whole civilization are the
danger against barbarity.. Is it wrong? - We can not discuss so open
if that wrong or not.. But therefore can other kind of types never nominees to
such prizes... - ?! - You looks like chocked, Sir!..
- You'll be more chocked when I say what I think now!.. - Say!..
- Ia m fuc'king such Nobel committee bastards!.. I am fuc'king your Mammele
Peace Ebadi and Jabotinsky litteral male whore J. CuteZee, plus at last you,
too!.. - ?!
**
- What are you thinking on JM COETZEE? -He is very clever falsificator,
uses humanitarian masks but he is a lapdog of the world domination of the
Zionist Imperialism&Talmudian fascism... Coetzee is wporking nowadays at Chicago
university for "Bran Washing" process. - But the officially resources
describe an other figure as Coetzee... We have a short documentary clip, on
such cases..... - Let's watch your example!.. - Endangered
Species: Jews and Buffaloes, Victims of Nazi Pseudo-science... By Frank Fox:
The author visited the Warsaw zoo in the late 1980s to trace the story of Jews
saved in animal cages and in 1999 went to Bialowieza, where the last of the
noble zubr (buffalo) can be seen. Few creatures are more helpless in time of war
than zoo animals and their plight is generally ignored when, understandably, the
human casualties are of greater concern. While we do not have to agree with the
anthropomorphic view expressed by J. M. Coetzee in his The Lives of Animals,
which conflates the sufferings of animals with the horrors of concentration
camps, we should not fail to see how cruelties inflicted by humans on animals
diminish all life. - I don't know the Warszaw Zoo animals thinking like
COETZEE but I witnessed the Coalition troops in Baghdad zoo, they shot the
animals, unique tiger art and other magnífique animals... This is a living
history and a chance to compare with Jrewish propaganda illusion arts and the
true Holocaust... - Nobel committee prized a liar? - Again!..
It looks like the Imre Kertész case.. - I don't think so.. This case is
little different and performed freakness. Scandinavian Zionist lobbies paying
thanksgiving to South African lobby, too... - Thanksgiving between
gangsters? - Definitely.. Remember, please, South African leagues
agitated to the "cleansing operations".. - Example?.. - These shurks
cooperated to cleanse the prime minister Olof PALME, if you wish hear very clear
example... - Incredible!.. PALME murdered in 1986 but this South
African Zionist get prize new, in 2003. - Professional business..
They are not so idiotics who will run to mouse-trap.. Today the children get
homework, obligatory to buy Coetzee and Imre Kertesz's propaganda book who were
in the mothers' stomach.. Such "brain washing" lambs can not know what PALME
said but exactly repeate what the Nobel prized shurks say... - After all
these years... We have not su much to do... - Perhaps only one word;
"Incredible"... - Incredible foolish.. - Foolish!..
Traditionally Talmudian imperialism absorbed the culture wealthy of all the
close sattellites.. Sweden won this word as a label on such cultur...

**
- What does NOBEL-prize scandal mean? Does the "Intellectual
Scientical Morality" decide take legal proceedingt against thus enormous fraud
and such manipulative foundations?
- Well, in fact NOBEL PRIZE COMMITTEE shurks connected with the ZIONISM (JEWISH
FASCISM)&any kind of halfoffical fraud LOBBIES, possessed Swedish institutions,
like a legalized coup in the European Union...
- But you are talking on the measures... I have no idea!...
- What is the intellectual responsibilty in this case?
- Maybe to try a Laponian perspective, a kind of essay on the Svekish Model
Culture-...
- Do it, Sir!

**

- Let's get started! Watch please all these video tapes, so you'll understand
that there is no culture in Svekja Kingdom!...
- I watched the first 40 episodes in the EMI studios and I agree with you!..
Although we in SvekJa don't dub our films or series as they do in Germany,
France or Italy (just for an example), we do subtitle them. So, this is the
version that is being subtitled. Animaniacs is called Anima-Dårpippi in SvekJa
Kingdom, which could be translated "Animated Lunatics". The translation is made
by Svek-state Television (SVT) which is the Public Broadcasting Network in
SvekJa Kingdom.
- Here is Svekish Culture; I know; Swedo Animaniacs is a symbol of halfofficial
culture propagand theme;
Swedo Amimaniacs
nu kommer Animaniacs/
vi är knäppiga till max /
skratta på er får ni strax/
sitt ner, för det är dags /
för Animaniacs /
vi är två Warner-bröder och en Warner-syster, Dot/
Filmstaden vi rusar runt och hittar jämt på nåt /
de låser gärna in oss /
när vi i fällan gått /
men varje bur vi tar oss ur/
det har ni nog förstått/
se Animaniacs /
se här Dot och Yakko strax/
Wakko äter gravad lax /
när motherfucker Jew Bill Clinton spelar sax/
till Animaniacs/
här är två andra polare som jämt vill sticka opp /
och duvorna får akta sig, nu får de en sittopp /
jakten går på Mindy /
och Rita drar en vals/
författarna har kollat /
varför ska vi repa alls?/
se Animaniacs /
ni kan nå oss med ett fax/
vi är knäppiga till max /
knäppigast i vår galax /
vi är så balla /
ja, det tycker alla/
ni får oss kalla /
Animaniacs /
nu är det dags!

- What does it mean?
- It shows, what kind of culture these "decompsed systems" pumping to the new
generations...
- Interpretation, please!
- Welcome, Sir! English translation from Svekish language, here;
Svekian Amimaniacs it's time for Animaniacs
/
we are zany to the max /
you'll be laughing in a while/
sit down, for now it's time /
for Animaniacs/
we are two Warner brothers and a Warner sister, Dot/
around the movie town we run around and we always hit upon something/
they gladly lock us in /
whenever we get trapped/
but from every cage, we get out/
I'm sure you figured that out/
watch Animaniacs /
look, here's Dot and Yakko at once/
Wakko eats gravlax /
when motherfucker Jew Bill Clinton plays the sax/
to Animaniacs/
here are two other buddies who always want to stick up/
and the pigeons have to watch out, now they'll get whacked/
the chase goes on Mindy /
and Rita makes a waltz /
the writers have kicked the bucket/
why should we rehearse at all? /
watch Animaniacs /
you can reach us with a fax/
we're zany to the max /
the zaniest in the galaxy/
we are so nifty/
yes, everybody thinks so/
you may call us/
Animaniacs (*) !/
now it's the time!

(*) Some words have been slighty altered, like the one for "zany" which is
"knäppiga". This adjective is inflected incorrecly, just to make it sound weird.
This is the poem in today's SvekJa Kingdom... Estimate why Nobel prize goes
mostly to the untalented Jews...
- You mean such ridiculous culture attitude, such awards as product
of process!.. But culture is not only literature...
- Of course!.. Therefore I have any living records from overclass who live a
modernized violence as culture life... For instance Pedophilia is a part of this
culture...
- We want to watch all these living cassettes and listen to the other records...
But who will translate all these evidences? Do you translate these records, too?
We don't know Svekish languae!
- Okay!.. Let's go!... Start!.. Listen to the dialog and answer my questions...
- Well, we listened a programme..."Western finance captal culture been built on
violences"... Original label was "Väster(finanskapital marknad)s kultur bygs på
våld(täckta); tv broadcast on June 30, 2000 - I rememeber...
- Me too, Nicolas Poussin var som berättat om vålds kultur och den traditionella
kulturens samröreprofiter...
- Explain shortly, please; I understand your language!
- Det talas först om våldbilder... Våldtäkten på sabinskorna, Metropolitan
Museum of Art, Jew York. Den första målningen som skildrar en gruppvåldtäkt.
Mats Deland om den härskande klassens makt och den äkta mannens Den här bilden
skildrar en av världshistoriens mest berömda gruppvåldtäkter, med motiv ur
mytologin om staden Roms grundläggning. När de första romarna inte kunde finna
fruar på vanligt sätt överföll de grannfolket sabinerna. De sabinska kvinnorna
tvingades bära romarnas barn och kallas ännu Roms urmödrar. Myten lever och
apostroferas i italiensk giftermålsetikett. En staty med samma namn, Våldtäkten
på sabinskorna, restes på 1580-talet på Piazza della Signoria i Florens,
Poussins tavla målades femtio år senare. I mitten av målningen strosar en
romare lugnt bort från händelsernas larm, vänligt samtalande med den sabinska
han överfallit. Att kvinnan efter en första
upprördhet skulle komma att finna sig i sitt öde är en viktig del av den
föreställningsvärld som ännu bestämmer synen på våldtäkter. Motivet saknar alla
uttryckliga tecken på samlag. Det latinska begreppet för våldtäkt, raptus, hade
ingen omedelbar sexuell laddning; det handlade snarare om stöld av ett slags
egendom. På bilden bärs kvinnorna iväg som vilket byte som helst. Att vi i
förgrunden ser en far, inte en make eller bror som förtvivlat försöker betvinga
en romersk angripare, markerar också den patriarkala kontrollen. Poussins
minutiöst avvägda komposition är ett exempel på vad som brukar kallas heroiska
våldtäktsskildringar. De finns i den västerländska kulturens absoluta centrum:
antika och bibliska motiv, skildrade under en av västerlandets kulturella
höjdpunkter, renässansen och dess fortsättning i klassicism och barock. Även
sentida konsthistoriker har intagit en märkligt förstående attityd. Motivet ovan
kallas vanligen Sabinskornas bortförande, och ord som förförelse, amorösa
utfall, förföljande, extas och till och med kärlek har också använts. Men den
amerikanska konstprofessorn Diane Wolfthal, vars läsning jag återger ovan, visar
i sin bok Images of Rape, The "heroic" tradition and its alternatives (Cambridge
UP 1999) att dessa förskönande våldtäktsskildringar långtifrån var oemotsagda.
Konstverk av det här slaget gjordes naturligtvis av män för män, och åtminstone
från början av 1500-talet var ett av syftena att stimulera erotiskt. De gömdes
som porr i den rikaste adelns privatsamlingar. Men framför allt handlade det om
makt: den härskande klassens och den äkta mannens. Det var hjältens privilegium
att våldföra sig på fiendens kvinnor, och mannens att betrakta kvinnan som sin
(inte hennes släkts) egendom. Detta sätt att framställa övergrepp stod i bjärt
kontrast till den tidigare epokens bilder. De medeltida skildringarna saknar de
erotiserande detaljerna. Däremot visades ibland samlaget, men då kopplat till
symboliska uttryck både för det våld som var förutsättningen för, och följderna
av, övergreppet: offrets förtvivlan och fysiska eller psykiska utplåning. Ofta
finns i dessa bilder – oftast bildserier – även skildringar av hur förövaren
straffas för sitt dåd och till och med samhällskritik. Ibland är det prästfolk
som våldtar, vilket var ett omdiskuterat problem under högmedeltiden. Denna
tradition fick en mindre känd fortsättning under renässansen och framöver, i de
folkliga träsnitt som visade följderna för vanligt folk av 1500- och 1600-talens
krig med värvade massarméer. Här är utförandet enkelt, i svart och vitt, och det
finns inget i bilderna som rättfärdigar de plundrande hjältarnas dåd.
Kvinnokroppar visas aldrig helt avklädda, deras klädsel är oordnad enbart för
att markera utsattheten. Den medeltida traditionen var ambivalent när det gällde
rätten att våldta tjejer i fiendeland, men byggde ändå anmärkningsvärt ofta på
ett tydligt ställningstagande för det kvinnliga offret. Bilder i kyrkliga
källskrifter och lagsamlingar bekräftar det. Boken om kvinnornas stad, av den
medeltida skriftställerskan Christine de Pizan (1363-ca 1430), ägnar tre kapitel
åt att diskutera våldtäkter. de Pizan invänder där mot den medeltida
föreställningen att den våldtagna tjejen, om hon skulle bli trodd, måste bevisa
att hon skrikit ut sin förtvivlan över nejden. Likaså kritiserar hon den
kyrkliga åsikten att tjejer som våldtagits borde ta sitt liv i förtvivlan. Mest
intressant är hennes omskrivning av legenden om den Galatiska drottningen,
berättad av Boccaccio. Drottningen hade tillsammans med sitt sällskap rövats
bort och våldtagits av sin kidnappare. I ett obevakat ögonblick lyckades hon få
en av sina tjänare att halshugga våldtäktsmannen – vars huvud hon senare
förärade sin make. Detta var ett för tiden tydligt exempel på att tjejer kan
inte bara överleva en våldtäkt, utan även hämnas på förövaren. I de Pizans
version, illustrerad under hennes överinseende, är budskapet än tydligare i och
med att drottningen själv utför dekapiteringen (att våldtäkten skulle vara
vanhedrande för offret är en föreställning som inte ens de Pizan lyckas frigöra
sig från). Det var knappast heller någon slump att den förövare av ett sexuellt
övergrepp som oftast avbildades i äldre tid var den ur första Mosebok hämtade
Potifars hustru. Hon påstås som bekant först ha misslyckats med att förföra
Josef, Jakobs och Rakels son, för att sedan med en falsk våldtäktsanklagelse ha
fått honom kastad i fängelsehålorna. Även dessa föreställningar, om fresterskan
och den påhittade våldtäktsanklagelsen, återfinns i själva hjärtat av det
västerländska kulturarvet.
- Det blev grund att atarta en debatt i SvekJa Kingdom om relationerna...
- Which one?
- Many... Massor... exempelvis vikinga regler full fart aktuellt fortfarande...
Pedofiler gynnas... Pedofiler anställs av officiella kretsar exempelvis
kurdosionistiska pedofil förrädaren Abit Dundar... Hans landsman den ökända
neo-sionistiska organisatören Nedim Dagdeviren och liknande rörelserna...
- Satellite regime's made an awful boob!.. - Whor are the really behind
this neo-liberal labeled WC?.. I continue in Svekish, menas, vem som står bakom
sådana kriminella?.. Jag har studerat fallet och upptäckt att mestadels af
kulturella falsifikationer ligger en enorm lobbyverksamhet som bedrivs
storskalligt direkt från Tel Aviv&Jew York.. Speciellt i dagens läge visar dessa
kretsar mäktigare ut, tyvärr! De experimenterade och fixade massa instruktioner.
Det är skrämmande att allt kan utnyttjas i samhället om bara dessa hororo vill
exempelvis fraudbenägna medlemmarna i Nobel-prize liknande stiftelserna...
- Corruption? - Both!.. Om man ger pengar till någon riskerar
ifrågasättas om korrupption.. Men om man betalar samma belopp till ett samröre
som maskerad i form av stiftelse samverkan blir det legalt, undviker ligan att
betala skatt och sådana detaljer som bonus...
- OK!.. I understand... You mean, the oligarchical foundations work like any
kind of the legalized fraudulent instruments...
- Definitely!
- I wish listen more... Go on, please!...
**

- It was the second time since 1991 the academy gave the award to a South
African. In 1991, it awarded the prize to another Jewish porpagandist, Nadine
Gordimer. - Feeling of indebtedness... Swedish evangelian zionist power feel
deeply thanksgving by South African collaboration all of operations... The prize
includes a check for more than $1.3 million, but it can also bestow the added
advantage of increased sales, celebrity and admiration. Hora C Engdahl, the
permanent secretary of the academy, said the decision was an easy one. But it's
scandal that this time again discovered that commission members didn't read any
book of Coetzee.. Coetzee, pronounced Cute-SEE'-uh, exposed that Swedish shurk
elite has more time for absolute votha instead of literature...

**

- We think in generalities...
- ...but we live in detalis.
- ...and a lot of people understand nothing, like me!
- ?!

**
- Do you translate it? Man can't understand this strange Svekish
languae!
- Okay!.. Let's continue with the interesting deal of interesting sponsors!
- Varför den lobbyverksamheten övertygar de hjälporganisationerna att supporta
de förrädiska kriminella immigranters falska kulturella centra?
- Exempel?
- TerrorNetwork AIPAC&ADLfiles... De som planerade och sammnkopplade lobbyer
byggde vissa centra, exempelvis det här helt fräckaktiga, falska biblioteket
Kurdish Library... No secret, Sir!... Al bevittnar idag att neo-sionistiska
indoktrineringen pågår under skylten... USraelvänliga fascister, en del
välplockade, importerade förrädiska kriminella immigrant grupper utbildas där i
verkligheten..
- We didn't know!..
- Watch this documentary clip, please; after then we can continue to explain!
- Start, Sir!
- Original label å nakna sanningar formaterats såhär: "E.U. under Zionist
conspiracy"; any chosen Democratical E.U. institutes been targeted... Financial
Criminal Lobbies&dirty affairs&collaborators...
www.Kurdinfo.com/ sympatisörer framlägger bevis om s.k. the financial
collaborative lobbies/concept " i samarbete med översättnings hjälp av
frivilliga hos UNITY&EU-for-the-people... - I know, these halvoffically
movements including many good memmbers who expose the big shames for example
WTO, World Bank, IMF och WEF. Just here is a page by them:
http://euforthepeople.tripod.com/id18.htm
**
- I understand better!... It looks like a worldwide connection like an half
official liberalized whore culture... Oligarchie uses liberal gloves...
- That is right!... Therefore the estalishmnet needs Nobel-prizes and corrupted
professur chairs for enormous camuflage of the pedophilia and similarly
scandals...
** - Organization "E.U. for the people" . just
reported that E.U. in Crisis!
- Unfortunately; yes, it is !.."
- That is right!... Like Comrade Rojev pointed; "Det bekräftas av olika kretsar
t. ex. ROJEV konstaterat att Krisen fördjupas på grund av konfrontationen mellan
EU&sionistika ockupations gänget/ samt provokation och korruption etc. använts
som vapen -full coverage/updated pages... Varning om judiska provokatörligor i
Australia&SvekJa Kingdom som beväpnar kriminella fanatiker bl. a. kurdiska
smugglare/urkundsförfalskare... Folkcentrum-o. Folkhögskolan Skeppsholmen's
vänner informerar i samarbete med Kurdinfo...
- What does Kurdinfo mean?
- Yes!... This organization has been two different organizations, the true DDKD
revolutionaries and the false heroes who accepted work for Zionist leagues...
- Let's listen to dialogues!..
- Det betyder att det är inte hela svenska folket utan s k
sionistisk-fascistiska provokatörer som prisar de falska flyktingarna som
manipulerat Migrationsverket (legaliserade korruptionsgänget) och andra mutade
myndigheter, hävdar Keya Izol (Nedim Dagdeviren's förre detta "bästa" vännen).
Den kriminella tjuven Nedim Dagdeviren som hävdade att vara kurdisk flykting och
fått uppehällstillstånd Det stämmer inte, avslöjar tjuvens närmaste f.d. vännen
Keya Izol, bryter banan nu... - All the traitorus instruments are so
flexible to betray each other... - Wonderful described and therefore we
shalll nominate them to the Nobel prize, next year... I wish continue in Svekish
language; yep; that ä det; nu fick de en extra affärslokal som har skylten
"Kurdiska bibliotek" på Skeppsholmen ö (!) där bara förrädiska kurder och
Mo$$ad's svenska medlemmar möts istället för läsare...
- Skrattretande! Komplexive relationen å scenen...
- Yes!... Baltics' corrupt-addicted leagues work for NATO and ScandinavianJewish
financial authorities fishing these easy going fishes... They need the well
camouflaged cultural centers, foundations like false library settled on the "La
Isla Estokholma", Skeppsholmen...
- Skeptiskholmen?!..
- I agree with you... Like the "La Isla Bonita" of all suspicious import
instruments, collected in this satellite Kingdom.. They explain it on the former
links:
http://www.marebalticum.se/index.htm
- Skämtskylten "Kitêbxaneya Kurdî" menas "Bibliotek". lurar myndigheterna, men
det kan inte lura eller locka folket p.g.a. stället är utanför city-centrum,
ligger på en ö, viktigaste orsaken är det saknas böcker där inte bara Judisk
Krönika eller andra propagand materiell som Menorah. " And they confirm us in
Kurdish language, too; "Birêvebirîya komeleyê ji van kesan pêk tê: serok Kalli
Klement, sekreter Ove Rådberg, muhasîb Lisa Nordström, endam Eugen Schoulgin,
Marie-Hélène Boccara, Suzanne Osten û Birgitta Wallin, Per Ahlmark, Cordelia
Edvardson, Jackie Jacubowski och (adopted criminal Hirvatian&Ethiopian Jew, in
the prison nowadays) Jackie Arklöv med flera i detta Kitêbxaneya Kurdî", säger i
sitt språk. Expanderar genom hjäp av välsorterad kollaboratorer av judiska
insamlingen:
http://www.ijk-s.se/svejud/sejud.htm
- Neo Fascist Zionist, vad som låter väldigt smart uppfinning att samla pengar
av både lättlurade stackare flyktingar och godtrogna svenska folket. Vart tog
vägen då 8 miljoner kronor som direkt hamnade Nedims händer???
- Nobody knows? Where are the democratical authorities in SvekJA Kingdom? -
Yes!.. Varför den Framtidens kultur stiftelsen så förtegen om detta? Kanske har
de ingen am´ning om varandras adresser eller telefonnummer då bör man tillägga
här:
Kitêbxaneya Kurdî , Skeppsholmen, Stockholm, tel 00.46.8.679 88 03 och fax
00.46.8. 679 88 04. Stiftelsen framtidens kultur, Glunten, 751 83 Uppsala, tel.
00.46.18. 17 19 40 och fax 00.46.18. 17 19 41, plus den kända
urkundsförfalskaren judisk-fanatiska propagandsbrottslingen, (efterlyst i Polen)
Julian Iljitzki, Djäknegatan 91, 754 25 Uppsala; Kristian Gerner, one other
famous bastard of Zion clan, Historieförfalskare i Institutionen för
östeuropastudier, Uppsala Uni., Gamla Torget 3, Box 514, 751 20 Uppsala. Phone:
0.46.18.4710000 Fax 00.46.18.106397. mm. Dessa enögda fascister som bildat det
falska Kitêbxaneya Kurdî, eller s.k. Zionistiska församlingens andra platsen som
ligger på Slupskjulsvägen 26, 111 49 Stockholm... - Wh? If this is a
true center, it should be in the city or any town... Why just on an island and
outside of the capitol.. - I understand what you mean!. Du menar vad
alla andra funderar på... Varför då på en ö?... Såhär många rika judar skulle
inte kunna fixa en riktig läsesalen i stan? Eller hur? Det är otroligt för att
äkta kurdiska bibliotekets säte är Frankrike som funnits i legala bibliotekens
filialakatalogen såhär:Bibliothèque??? Jo, det finns ett riktigt legalt "
European Kurdish Library" i Paris... Many good persons are members by this
institution although Francia is not clear than Scandinavian satellites:
http://www.institutkurde.org/ikpweba/biblio/bib.htm "Kurdish Library of
Neo-Zionists" i Stockholm är ett ren falskt, provocativt samröre, uppger de
oberoende källlorna genom citera lite av det europeisk-kurdiska biblioetekets
pampfletter: "Catalogue of books available at the Paris Kurdish Institute's
Library over 6.000 titles listed by FileMaker data base. The Kurdish Institute
maintains the largest Kurdish library in the Western world. At present it
possesses 6,423 monographs on the Kurds, in 23 languages, several tens of
thousands of writings, collections of periodicals and newspapers, photos, videos
as well as an archive of sounds and musical recordings. Address of this legal
Kurdish Library: Fondation reconnue d'utilité publique 106, rue La Fayette,
75010 Paris. Tél. : 00.33.1.48 24 64 64 - Fax : 00.33.1 48 24 64 66 Other
contact possibilities on: http://www.fikp.org E-post:
ikp@fikp.org ... ... - Who pays the hies of the neo Zionist Kurdish
criminals? - Like all others in Brisbane, Jew York, Tel Aviv.. In Stockholm
we witness the same sponsors behind of Nedim and such chiefs... - It's
true!.. Neo-Nedim som förnyat sin bostad också. Här är den extra lägenhets
address: Nedim Dagdeviren: Per Lindeströms väg 76, 121 46 Johanneshov, southern
Stockholm, Sweden. Phone: 00.46.8. 556 223 23 or phone&fax: 00.46.8. 556 224 24
Första adressen har blivit kvar i katalogen som tillhör första frun (tel:
00.46.8. 774 73 54; fax: 00.46.8. 711 0836 som låtsas-skilda att få något sort
extra bidrag av de svenska korrumperade myndigheterna. ... ... - Corruption is
daily work (!) by the Swedish authorities, not only the Jewish leagues, even the
Kurdish traitor cliques learned to corrupt the officially figures... I heard
that there is a one danger person who Nedim's close collaborator "outlawed
brother"... This fake brother has third suite and betray the authorities by
fake paper. He run an organisation so called "Invandrarföreningen" etc..
- Who is that criminal arranger? - I explain in my own langage... Han
heter Mehmet Tayfun som använder f.d. mammans efternamn, Tayfun, (code name is:
Malmisanij in the occupied Middle East. Malmisanij has been wanted both in
Syria, Armenia and Irak...) bor i Spånga, driver den låtsas verksamheten
författarföreningen, Hyppingeplan 21, 163 62 Spånga Tel 00.46.8. 760 69 38 -
I have some additional info from Germania; the sources sent evidences that this
second guy use different code name in the EU countries; "Mehmet Tayfun, geboren
in Diyarbakir, 1952; wohnt: in Skandinavien; sein Mission: provokieren die Zaza
Fanatischen gegen anderer Völker, wie die zionistiscjen Lobbien wollen; sein
kodierte Name: Malmisanij... - Britannian sources gave similarly info that
his "code name is: MALMISANIJ, joined provocational acts in the occupied
Middle East. Malmisanij has been wanted criminal both in Syria, Armenia and
Irak... - All these leagues been used like an reserv power by the side
of Jewish lobbies...This is the kinky connection... - Second hand!...
- That is right!.."Imported criminals" are the "Bloody hands" of the judaized
oligarchie.. - This "Second hand" recruited by a different league, too. It's a
fake cultural project.. Do I contunie in Svekish langaue? - You are
welcome... Your evidences are very interesting, Sir!.. - Sionisternas
Hatikva-samröre Framtidens dominerande kultur stiftelsen betalade 30 000 kr som
första symboliska delen av tjänsten för att korrumpera vissa lättköpta
kriminella varelser. Summan betalades i handen av Nedim Dagdeviren i Uppsala.Det
blev ju bara driskgeld p.g.a. efteråtfått han otroliga bidrag av olika
sionvänliga kretsar bl.a. statens (vilka krafternas stat) kulturråd osv. Den
ökända tjuven Nedim Dagdeviren som blivit anställd (ordförande, utan
bibliotekarieutbildning) i det påhittighetens mästarverk mötesplatsen. Det är en
samlingslokal och handlingsplats i verkligheten. De förrädiska kurderna som
huvudaktörer hos människosmugglarna, verksamma judiska kretsarnas all smutsiga
affärer som driver ett extra reservkontor i denna byggnaden. Den är judiska
samröregängets hemsida som avslöjar att hur det kontraktet finansierats I
början: Neo-Zionist Nedim avslöjar sitt kriminella förflutet, erkänner att hotas
av minst 10-års fallande dömar både i Turkiet, Syria och Iraq. Avslöjan läsas på
Internet: http://www.dds.se/dms/50ar/print3_4.htm
Enligt hans egen version; "Bakgrund: Nedîm Dagdeviren, född 1953 I
Bismil-Kurdistan. Jag var medlem i det kurdiska ungdomsförbundet DDKD. När domen
på tio års fängelse föll, hade vi flytt över gränsen till Syria. Därifrån kom vi
till Sverige. Det var 1983. Ordet är vår själ. I Turkiet försvarade jag det när
det förbjöds, spred det när det undanhölls." Lögn, lika listig som Elie
Wiesel!.. Hans version har brist till sanna orsaker och den här är sanningen:
Den kriminella tjuven lurade svenska myndigheter bl.a. Invandrarverket. The
Independent Info-Sources of Middle East, for example so called Turkiska
oberoende källor bl.a. hans f.d. bästa vän Keya Izol's Nacka Group uppger att
han fängslades aldrig trots han han hävdar att han fick straff i tio år. Han
anklagades för stöld, plundring av armeniernas kvarvarande förmögen, mordsförsök
osv. Alla dessa händelser visar sig att han ljugit om politiska motivet vad som
ligger i hans pärm hos f.d. Invandrarverket. Han flydde till Syrien 1983. I
samma år begick han liknande brott där och flytt vidare till Europa genom
förfalskade papper, pass, intyg. Sverige som var ett enda landet som accepterade
den kriminiella tjuven och medföljande gruppen som "nysvenskar"!!! Nedim
Dagdeviren fick tur att få jobb trots han aldrig studerade i Turkiet som skulle
utbildas till bibliotekarie osv d.v.s. hans betyg var också förfalskade som alla
andra skurkaktiga medföljande tjuvar. Skurken är ordförande i biblioteket och
hans kålsupare driver liknande centrumet i Uppsala som förråder vårt land. Keko
Izol har mycket att avslöja men denne medlöparens (andra klass
förfalskare-judevän)s
språk räckte inte... - Do you undestand Kurdish language? -
Not at all.. Inget alls... Men det finns Swedish Jewish whores who left notices
about the temporary customers... - Temporary customer? What does it
mean? - The whores call such groups... Imported immigrants in the street
of Malmskillnadsgatan, Stockholm's open brothel... Look att this one notice for
example; " Ni får ju publicera denna info. på något sätt... Mvh. Gunilla P." ...
... .... - It looks like serious info but we need fact... - In
fact SvekJa Kingdom har massor kurdiska föreningar som mestadels inte kunnig om
vad sionistiska faran betyder, hur de kollabortorna åtgärdas? - Någon
borde informera dessa lurade kurdmedlemmar som inte har aning om chefernas syfte
och vinst!... - Where? - On the "Mouse-trap"; here, for
example:
° Kurdiska Föreningen i Borlänge Sturegränd 11, 784 32 Borlänge
° Kurdiska Spor Föreningen Box 152 16, 161 15 Bromma
° Kurdiska Föreningen i Borås Box 11129, 507 11 Borås
° Kurdiska Föreningen i Eskilstuna Box 14595, 630 14 Eskilstuna
° Kurdiska Föreningen i Falköping Box 146, 521 02 Falköping
° Kurdiska Föreningen i Falun box 6010, 791 06 Falun
° Kurdiska Föreningen i Helsinborg Visitörsg. 13, 252 47 Helsingborg
° Kurdiska Föreningen i Gävle Box 1277, 801 37 Gävle
° Kurdiska Föreningen i Göteborg Box 11102, 404 23 Göteborg
° Kurdiska Föreningen i Hudiksvall Valv. 15, 824 42 Hudiksval
° Kurdiska Kultur och Solidaritetsföreningen Box 225, 175 02 Järfälla
° Kurdiska Föreningen i Jönköping Box 8043, 550 08 Jönköping
° Kurdiska Kultur Klubben Box 130, 691 22 Karlskoga
° Kurdiska Föreningen i Karlstad Fagog. 11, 654 70 Karlstad
° Kurdiska Föreningen i Kristinstad Bataljonv.40, 291 37 Kristinstad
° Kurdiska Föreningen i Linköping Box 657, 582 07 Linköping
° Kurdiska Handikappsföreningen i Linköping Box 657, 582 07 Linköping
° Kurdiska Kulturföreningen i Luleå Box 170, 971 05 Luleå
° Kurdiska Föreningen i Lund Box 1633, 221 01 Lund
° Kurdistans Fredsförening i Malmö Fosilv. 29 B, 7 tr. 214 31 Malmö
° Kurdiska Föreningen i Malmö N.Gränsbergsg. 4, 214 55 Malmö
° Kurdiska Föreningen i Märsta c/o Gharib Adil, Sleipersg 40, 195 54 Märsta
° Kurdiska Föreningen i Norrköping Kungsgatan 26, 602 20 Norrköping
° Kurdiska Föreningen i Nynäshamn Box 266, 149 23 Nynäshamn
° Kurdiska Föreningen i Sala-Häby Box 165, 733 30 Sala
° Kurdiska Föreningen i Sandviken Box 3070, 811 33 Sandviken
° Kurdiska Föreningen i Spånga Box 4118, 163 04 Spånga
° Kurdiska Föreningen i Stockholm Box 49090, 100 28 Stockholm
° Kurdiska Föreningen i Sundsvall Box 6025, 850 06 Sundsvall
° Kurdiska Föreningen i Trollhätten Box 6043, 461 06 Trollhätten
° Kurdiska Föreningen i Umeå Box 257, 901 06 Umeå
° Kurdiska Föreningen i Upplandsväsby Björkvalav. 29, 194 36 Upplandsväsby
° Kurdistans Förening Uppsala Box 308, 750 03 Uppsala
° Svensk Kurdsike Föreningen i Uppsala Box 25065, 750 25 Uppsala
° Kurdiska Föreningen i Västerås Box 1369, 720 13 Västerås
° Kurdiska Föreningen i Örebro Box 537, 701 50 Örebro
° Kurdiska Föreningen i Östersund Box 668, 831 27 Östersund, mm mm
- Why they listed all these Kurdish organisations?
- It's the best example to expose the truth!... Listen to the Svekish version
first!...
- Man bör fråga om vem som betalar alla dessa skandinaviens omfattande lokalers
hyror? Varför? Älskar kapitalistiska regimer de konfliktdrabbade länders folk så
mycket? - I wonder!.. Who pays the hires all of the marionette
leagues' offices? And why?..
- That is wonderful question!.. I witnessed, the Jew controlled municipalities
paying all these satellite leagues hire bills... I wonder on the future all of
the members of these headquartes... But, excuse me I' continue in Svekish
language, again... - You are welcome!.. - Well!... När det
gäller sätta på jobbet de medlemmarna av dessa, varför då försvinner
generösiteten utan ifrågasättas de som och diskrimineras en del livet ut så
cyniskt sätt för att "mörka kraftersliknande" verksamheten REGISTRERAR
MÄNNISKOR, speciellt de som är kritiska mot systemet och som beskrivits att inte
lydiga hos den sionistiska imperialismen???
- Vi vanliga medborgare borde vara verkligen vänliga och orka satsa på att
upplysa allmänheten, omedelbart, ifrågasätta vad den enorma satsningen,
systemlydna omorganisationen betyda!
- I understand... I witnessed that the true Swedish and Laponian citizens have
no such enormous powe to hire the offices, for example a famous magazine
Proletaren started "bookcafé" projects, but strongest one of these files
couldn't survive three months.. Why? Because the municipalties didn't support
the culture centres, when the centre insist to be independent... - Do
you show me your sources? Who spread so much interesting facts? Maybe, Svensk
Encyclopedia on Internet? - No, dear!.. Goidfather is best leakage when
you research Mafia!... - I can't understand!... - So I explain in
your own Svekish languae; de judestyrda trasor som Dagens Nyheter,
Expressen, Menorah, Judisk krönika etc. avslöjar sig själv... Fattat; they
expose themselves...
- But I would like to give another source, an independent researcher who sent
similarly evidences.. Do you know about John Bennet?
- No!... Tell us, please!
- He is my mainly living source like all others... I want to tell all these
persons... First, John BENNET... We listen to the cassette, then I'll continue
to translate.... Let's continue with the "characters" issue!.. Australiensisk
yttrandefrihetskämpe och revisionist, medlem i Australian Civil Liberties Union.
Uppsala Nya Tidning/artikelserien om "Bergman-affären": Jan Bergman är Professor
i religionshistoria, egyptolog, text-exeget mm. som arbetar vid Uppsala
university. Bergman var inkallad som försvarsvittne i samband med
Rami-rättegången 1989, och vittnade bl.a. om hur judendomen använder sig av
religiösa påbud för att legitimera bruk av våld och mord på icke-judar. Som ett
resultat av att han med sin kompetens och kunskap vågade visa på den judiska
rasismen, beslutade sig judarna för att försöka krossa Bergman, och drog igång
en kampanj, den sk. Bergman-affären, mot Uppsala university. En kampanj som
fortgår alltjämt idag, och vars syfte är att krossa Bergman, beröva hans
akademiska rang, smutskasta honom och sätta ett avskräckande exempel. Den
judiska arrogansen gav dock en motsatt effekt och väckte istället ett medvetande
inom Uppsala university om den judiska makten och hur den verkar. För mer info
bör man läsa Ahmed Rami's bok "Judisk Häxprocess" där Bergmans omtalade
vittnesmål finns publicerat. Läs gärna också Bergmans artikel publicerad i
Upsala Nya Tidning: "Kampanj mot min person" heter rubriken... Kan fräckheten
vara traditionell hos någon annan folkstamm? "Vikingabarbariet kan jämföras med
kanske men, på dett kan man inte tävla med judar", avslöjar dessa fräcka
fascisters egna kommittén i sin egen version som heter The Encyclopedia Jude.
Den här attityd betecknas Chutzpah: (shutzpeh, schutzpah, schutzpeh, shutzpah,
shutzpeh...) Den judiska fräckheten. Ett exempel är enligt "Encyclopaedia
Judaica" sonen som dödade sina föräldrar och senare vände sig till
församlingskassan för att få bidrag som föräldralös. Cordelia Edvardson: Judisk
Ockupied Middle East's korrespondent på Svenska Dagbladet. Vann det stora
journalistpriset 1983. Israelisk medborgare och författarinna till boken
"Brännt barn söker sig till elden" om hennes upplevelser under andra
världskriget i s.k. "förintelse" (hurdan Förintelse, alla klarade överleva och
hon såldes i verkligheten som 14 åring hora till svenska bordeller)... Hennes
son är med i den judiska arméns fallskärmsjägartrupper (som dricker palestinska
barnens blod som äkta pappan Ehud Barak-Netanjahu-Human Butcher Ariel
Sharon-troops...). They occupied the Middle East by bloody machines, but same
process realized in Scandinavia by the manipulated cultural actions... - I
understand.. If you corrupt an authority, it's crime and you find yourself in
the prison. But when you build a foundation and buy the brains of selected
persons under label "prize", so it will be legalized issue; most lefgalized
corrupt labeled "Nobel"... - Therefore they use both imported figures by the
side of our bastard arrangers, like Ekman... - Who is that girl? -
Man, holy liar Ulf Ekman: Pastor och judisk bastard- "Godfader of Holy
falsification" för härvan Livets Ord . Han är en av de fanatiska Zionist
Mafia-vänner, har bl.a. skrivet boken "Judarna - Framtidens folk", där han visar
hur det är vår plikt som icke-judar att slava för det judiska folket - till sin
hjälp för att förklara detta citerar Ekman bibelcitat från den judiska bibeln -
Torahn. Typisk religiös kollaboratör fascist i branschen av kristen-Nazi-Zionist
triangel.
Förenade Israelinsamlingen - Keren Hayesod: En mäktig judisk organisation, med
global täckning och lokalavdelningar över hela världen. Arbetar med att samla in
pengar till den s k Zionist military Mafia USrael genom pengainsamlingar och
donationer från förmögna judar i "diasporan". Den svenska lokalavdelningen har
en egen tidning som heter "Menorah". Goj: (goy, pluralis. gojim el. goyim)
Nedlåtande judisk beteckning på icke-judar. Synonymt med
"boskap", "kreatur" enligt dem, den form av fascist syn relaterat med judiska
uttrycket "Shabbaz Goj".
- This an enormous double moral machine, it stinks much more in last time...
Machine has two sides; a side of these lobbies discrimate persons and recruits
only the selected loyal members in false democracy areas and second one side of
the troops going to eliminate people on the occupied areas... A soft side and a
bloody backside of an enorms process...
- Look at the AMS, for example it worjks like a kind of mniature model of Nobel
committees; here the persons get first true jobs, who licks the ass of zionist
chiefs.. Meantime these authorities discriminate the honoured intellectuals... I
met well-known examples, jobless academicians too.. There are many persons much
more talented than COETZEEE and Mammele EBADI, there are much more Humanist
Jurists, Humanist Poems, Writers who are the victims of satellite regimes..
These pursued heroes really show engagement on many areas but these pursued
persons are still under heavy persecution process... I met the true heroes of
human rights, been jobless because they never collaborated with the judaized
Imperilaism.. I know many living examples, sice 15 years going jobless... Many
of them used in the laboratories, many of them are not aware...
- Many of them above listed offices and leagues, too.. They have been used as
animals in the laboratories, but they don't aware on such process..
- You mean the false "Jobbcentrum Vårberg"?.. - Such ridiculous process
centres of hypocrisy system... - I understand!.. All these registrated
intellectuals handled more cruel than non-talented immigrants...Because,
imperialism afraid of the brains at work nor the "living creatures"...
- Sweden has at least an half million registrated jobless... Massdiscrimination,
human and no single one "jobseeker Jew"... Like a kind of dynasty...
- Many pursued persons get no single one true cnace in work lihe... All life
long!.. This is a crime!...
- Discrimination is a crime, true!..
- Discrimination and persecution are the exercution of liberal capitalist
barbarity!...
- Satellites living in an ocean of double standards... They give Nobel prize to
the lapdogs and meantime don't see the reality in their own backstage..
- Are we, ordinary people are all together the animals?
- According to Jewish dogmatism; yes!... A kind of "Animaniacs", what the boss
of Swedish cultur-market describes...... If you accept that Jews are first class
human and you are animal, serious; so you can take permanent chance for recruits
in the liberalized work world...
- Now I understand better, why any selected immigrants take always chance to be
personnel in Scandinavia!..
- This is a chain!..
- Dirty and bloody chain, but you must use label "culture"!.. This is the
validity in this community which rules under Zionist domination... - What
I learned here, you know? - What? - Ahmed RAMI should be
stronger candidate to NOBEL prize, if he should be traitor like these false
Cubanos, Persian whores or traitor Kurds, pedophilia criminals by neo-liberal
fascist leagues of Folkpartiet... - Sir, you describe what we think!..
- You don't need to be genie to guess that the "butcher" sharks living in same
ocean between the hippocampus and delphinus... - Poem? -
Tolkning af COETZEE!.. - ?!
**
- Why the Zionist lobbies invest for manipulative culture
activities? - One aspect of the centuries-old, and present-day, operations
of the Zionists is the
undermining and ruining of the culture of other nations, the disintegration of
their distinctive national features and of their national unity. A related
aspect is their activities directed against the culture of all mankind, against
classical, harmonizing art of all kinds. Destruction, dissonance,
abstractionism, surrealism and other nastinesses are elevated into a principle.
This is then declared to be the last word in culture; those who do not accept it
are defamed as being retrogrades, as not understanding modern art, and so forth.
The consciousness and psychology of the masses are ruined. This applies both to
any particular nation, and to all mankind. The nature of the "cultural
activities" of the Zionists lies in depriving all the Gentile nations of their
particular national roots, as well of their roots in a general human sense. That
is the nature of the Zionists' so-called cosmopolitanism. The current decline of
culture and art in Russia is very directly related to the ruinous work of
Zionism, and is the direct work of Zionism's hands. In large matters as in
small, Zionists are everywhere taking control of the organs of administration of
culture, art, education and science, and are performing relevant work in a
manner suitable to Zionism. Specifically, the art of a nation, and the roots of
a nation's soul, are being perverted, vulgarized and coarsened. This is done
shamelessly and effectively. They take their activities to the stage where a
Russian, for example, (and unfortunately this is no rarity) will say: "I can't
stand Russian songs!" The point is that he has been and still is being served a
specially prepared surrogate. The songs which are passed off as the songs of a
nation frequently bear no relation to the true art of that nation. They are
either minor pieces of work, or imitations, or things which have been specially
corrupted and perverted. Moreover, man has for a long time been sustainedly torn
away from his national roots. He is to a large extent already denationalized and
will consequently better absorb that substitute for culture which is of benefit
to Zion because it works on people in the spirit which Zion desires.
**
- Nobel prize is the bigger process by all of such cultural weapons...
- A strong advocate of Zionism, Gerald Kaufmann, heads the panel of judges for
the Booker Prize. Other members of the panel are John Sutherland, Natasha
Walter, Shena Mckay and Boyd Tonking. There were several factors other than
literary excellence that influenced the selection for the prize wrote Paul
Bailey, a noted literary critic, recently. He cited the examples of Salman
Rushdie and Vikram Seth who, despite their lack of literary talent, were awarded
the prize earlier.
- Unfortunately... The year of 2003 prize was awarded to the South African
writer, J.M Coetzee. The Egyptian writer Ahdaf Soueif was the most deserving
among the final list of the writers. The judges considered her novel, 'The Map
of Love', a rare piece of literary excellence, according to Bailey. Yet she was
denied the prize. Analyzing the reasons for her disqualification, Prof.
Sutherland considers that her hostile sentiments toward the Zionist movement
could have prompted Kaufmann to adopt a unfavorable stand against her.
Kaufmann's past as a zealous Jewish activist underpins this suspicion. He was
born and brought up among Jewish zealots. After completing his education at
Leeds, he entered politics. He was elected a Labor MP in 1970. Prime Minister
Harold Wilson, noted for his Zionist tilt, included him among his confidants.
Spotting his talent combined with his
dedication to the Zionist movement, Wilson allowed Kaufmann to prepare his
speeches on special occasions. During the Six-Day War, Kaufmann carried secret
letters between the Prime Minister's office and Israel's ambassador Aharon
Remez. This act, in fact, amounted to espionage and treason against Britain.
Kaufmann's memoirs also shed light on the biased British stand toward Israel in
1967 war. Kaufmann criticized the neutral stand taken by Edward Heath's
Conservative government in the 1973 Middle East war. He also expressed his
displeasure over the government's ban on the sale of weapons to Israel,
considering it the aggressor. The then Conservative government also denied
American planes carrying weapons to Israel permission to land or refuel in
British airports. Kaufmann also accused Foreign Secretary Sir Alec Douglas Home
of anti-Semitism because of his bold stand in the General Assembly on this
issue. Later Kaufmann paid a visit to Israel in order to express his sympathy
and apology for the matter. Menahem Begin, the veteran terrorist leader, wanted
to meet Kaufmann in particular and express his personal gratitude to Kaufmann
for the services offered by him to Israel, Kaufmann's 'true motherland,' by
committing treason against Britain, his native country. On Kaufmann's becoming
the shadow foreign secretary for Labor in 1987, the Arabs expressed their deep
concern over the matter. He did not want to lose his post
because of the displeasure of the Arabs. Therefore Kaufmann began to appear as a
supporter of Palestinian self-determination. His attitude toward the Zionist
movement, however, did not undergo any change. He called Zionism a movement for
cultural liberation.
The fact that Salman Rushdie got the prize because of his venomous attack on
Islam and Ahdaf Soueif was denied it because of her Arab identity makes one
wonder whether a writer's attitude toward Islam and Arabs is the decisive factor
in winning the Booker Prize
**
- I understand, such kinky system gave prizes to its own doggies, nothing
else... - It's true!.. And then this Jewish provocator propagandist lapdog
"Jabotinsky Nut" COETZEE won (!!!) NOBEL prize 2003. - Well, it's not
only to the fake literature of an zion "gentle fascist" bastard; frankly it's an
extra prize to the South African mobilize assassination leagues who joined to
realize "well-planned cleansing" Olof PALME, too... - Like a kinky film
clip, a scenario on the Hypo-Culture Crisis of the zion infected Western shurk
intellectuality. - It realized at the least!.. This is the
"schutzpach", Jewish freakness...
**

- What are you thinking on these incredible scenes? - We must know that
our weakness is Imperialism's strength, I understand here again... - I agree
with you, Comrade Jonas Hållén! - You are welcome, Comrade Lars Törnman!
**
- I think, democracy should work better!.. Criminals and collaborators should be
arrested!
- Should we arrest the criminals?!. Don't make me laugh! - Well, I see the
double roles and false rules of the juridical instruments... What a shame we
been forced to label it "democracy"... How thus majority of people, thus living
creators, stinky mass could be so incredible nonsense blind meanwhile all the
enormous fraudulent process?!.. Unbelieveable!... This is a glaring
injustice!.. I wonder, what goes wrong by the juridical instruments... How can I
say?! It is very strange!... You now, if you see all these incredible cases,
thick-headed attitudes... - How? Do you explain? What is concrete that
you remember? - Yes, I remember that David Janzon, a redactional worker of
Radio Islam, was sentenced to 4 months' imprisonment in October 1992, for the
station's agitation "against an ethnic group". Are the provocators of Capitalist
Fascist lobbies are really a ethnical group?! - There is so specially
groups? Okay, Jews!... It's the overclass group, nobody can imitate such
shurks... - But when you been oppressed so your accusation can only
be refuseed... The shurks are the masters 'cause they experinced a lot of cruel
methodes since many years... You can only suffer like many freedom fighters...
- Concrete cases? - Very much!... The judges of system who play dirty
rolls... It is extra incredible on Swedish justice-scenes that many foolish
judges been corrupted by Jewish authorities and they play extra horrible rolls
as pycho-proff doctor magister at policlinics... I can not meet all the judges
nor observate all the cases but I met many high-staff at Golf Club Tenerrife,
they explained... Shameful!... I can not explain here what they say on the
corrpted colleges, so awfully shameful... ... Court material look likes
simetrical sences, reasons are too similarly... Many papers of court been
published by the Bonniers, Nordstedt... Same mechanism publish as basic Zionist
propagand material, too... EU-membership... After 1995 impressed it by the
democratical authorities of other countries? - Unfortunately, it's in all
frauds, much more dirty now... If any true jurist goes to United Nations related
commissions or the independent justice authorities, so we shall most interesting
scandals... - What kind of scandals? - For instance Osmo
Vallo&Tony Mutka and other members of the "assassination on the so called
Resande Folket" cases... Märta Pettersson and others who murdered by the
"imported criminals" like Bengalian Zionist Mafia moblized in the EU; similarly
recruitment cases... Remember; what the relatiives of Tony Deogan, Dagmar
Hagelin, Anders Gustavsson demand... - Don't make me worry with
examles, don't list please much more!.. - It's not me who create the
official shame lists!.. Did you hear Osmo Vallo's two brothers and all other
relatives are arrested, too... The victims and witness been arrested instead of
murderers... Otherway, many freedom fighters forced to be jobless and living
under minimal standards... Most famous concret case is Stefan Dimiter
Tcholakov who labelled as "laborious" and Work Rights fighters Jimmie
Östergren, delegated adviser (former grafiker) Bengt Pettersson and Ahmed Rami,
because of these bravehearts criticized the thieves by the Capitalist Jewish
lobbies... Laponians who fight for own mark and minority rights, therefore
prisoned their representative character Olof T. Johansson, the true Socialists
like Bengt Frejd, Sara Lidman, Staffan Ehnebom, so-called the "Free Speech
Fighters", anti-Capitalist demonstranter like Jan Hatto, Sten Arne-Zerpe,
Dietlieb Felderer, movements who struggle against the weapon-handlers like
Henrik Westander (before professur-chair gift) and by his side likely flexible
Calle Höglund, anti-Imperialists Hannes Westberg, Herman Schmid, journalists
Staffan Beckman, Stefan Hjertén, free-mind intellectuals like Rainer Holm, Linus
Brohult, honoured priest K. G. Hammar and hundreds of the anti-Imperialists who
been registrated by the lobbies... - What is common with them?
- Also! When a Fascist accuse them so judges punish the reviewers,
immediately... But when the oppressed people leave any accusation acceptance,
can easily be refuseed ... The requests of them almost been absolutely
refuseed... - Why the DN, Expressen and other big papers awoid of to
publich these true stories?.. They awoid of to show the real discrimination?!
Schindler's List was only a filmatic illusion, actually the true boss never gave
a chance peace in communities... You know, Bonniers, Wallenberg,
Bilderberg-gangs and "Bulldogs" drive the Swindlers' lists, means all the
honoured intellectuals been registrated on their computers... Therefore
Stockholm-Canberra changed to be second plot area of Jew York-Tel Aviv's armed
Mafia... - Yes, it's!.. But what a lucky I have been warned before!.
- The authorities are blind on such actions.. Why? - Because every big
shurk drives by the big lobbies in this big SvekJa zionized Kingdom... - ?!
- How can we could informed and know the truth!?... - I can't reply all in
two minutes?! - Well!... I understand better... It's a modernised
version of enormous hypocrisy... And I understand why the worlkd couldn't react
when Jews slaughed people in Sabra, Shatila, Jenin... Everybody watched on tv
meanwhile druck Coca-Cola, chips, bonbons... - Like the film-druged idiots?..
- No, Sir!... We have incredible reactions and collaborated feelings too,
remember, we all cried when we watched on the Swindler's list, whole lies
master-piece on scenes... - Shame on double-moral masters!.. Where are the
all good peoples now?! - No way to Pessimism, please!.. Well, I see a
positive case here on the Scandinavian Jewish DN, Expressen, Menorah pages;
Maximum sentence for the desecration of cemeteries - an outrage which
traditionally targeted Jewish cemeteries - was raised from 6 months'
imprisonment to 2 years. Yes, the prisonment period raised in 1993, Spring.
Then... - It should not calls for case; it's provocation... There is no any
single case in SvekJa, means nobody sentenced, nobody improsined for
desecrations.. - Maximum sentence will be 2 years! Isn't good? - I
want not talk on the sentences good or not good... But I'm coming from Skaane
and I witnessed who targeted the cemeteries... - Who? -
Jews!... I saw them... They were there and porovoced very succesful so they
manipulated sitation... Therefore there is no prisoner after this pharagraph '
cause they aimed change the rules... - I remember a similarly case,
my mother witnessed and told us about the foxy Jews who played theatre at the
street on 30 November in Germania... It was before WW III, Jewish fanatics
crashed own glass and won enormous generous compensation by the reasurance
firms... But their media manipulated the world by the help of american
Imperialism so all the analphabets crying on every 30 September worldwide, every
year like a crying festival, meantime the Zionist boss' laughing behind the
windows...
**
- This is not the Cold War but a form of ongoing Cold War, what drives now by
the lobbies... This area demands the prejudiced scientists... - Why the
oppressed folk don't protest or discuss these problems... - Ever and never!
This is not the results of the football matches... People need knowledge on
biological developments... - Biological? Bur the lobotomies and
sterilization methodes were only in last century?! - System have now most
avanced methodes for instance isolation, registration and systematically
injustice... Only two tousand youngs become suicide in SvekJa Kingdom, two times
been a short news.. - Youngs?... But adults? - They never
counts by half officially pools.... Animal lover bourgeoisie have
sex-partner-dogs, counts for identification and health rights, but not the
discriminated persons... Never mind!... - There aren't really a single
one modernized democratical institution?
- ?! ** - I wonder why many
immigrants sets to work without language courses meanwhile many others been
discriminated because of their language is not "wonderful, brilliant"?.. - I
met many people too... For example after Warszawa pakt's collapse fleed
manybiologs to the occupied Middle East, Australia, SvekJa and specially the
laboratory workers sets on the jobs without any oppression... - Did you
found any explain about this subject?.. - Not directly... I met a family
in SvekJa, who calls for BOLDTs, escaped from Baltics by the way of so-called
"official Al Capone Raoul Wallenberg" Co's false Finnish pass and corrupted
authorities in Kingdom by the way of Jewish lobbies... A cunning mature, drives
"Invandrar Publications"... She explained that all these scientists had already
one or two international languages what been respected... - She lies!.. I
know a writer, know six or seven language but SvekJa system set him too the
cleaner-catch boy courses... - Yes; I understand... Jolin replied this
case too; "maybe the writer criticised the oligarchical targets..." -
And she publish these subjects on the Invandrar Tidningen? Bravo!... - You
will be chocked; she help to the lobbies to registrate opposite... - Was she
biology-worker in Baltics... - No!... But system need such families to
follow the people and therefore she didn't go to the claenar courses and nor any
language course although her vocabulary is worst when I compare with other
immigrants... Nowadays fixed this family a credit possbility by the lobbies and
Swedish American authorities,looks like a support to publish weekly propagand
bulletin, called "Sesam"... - Is it a propagand bulletin which the
redacteurs in Jew York recommended? - Yes!... Worst and most dangerous in the
world... - Do you explain; what you discovered by Sesam or chief Jolin
Boldt or Jusek/jurists' judadominated syndical sect media runs by Göran Boldt
Co. although this zionist gang never had a single one scientist in the
family!.. - Yes, it's!.. But such chiefs are clever to use the regularly
credits of system... I am an ordinary people and regularly reading all the
issues of Sesam/Jusek falsification magazines and look at on these pages, what
these gangsters provoce: "Immigrants always have problems.. They must complete
their education and integrate to the democratical values..." Very
provocative...It means if you never been accepted as true citizen so you must
think that your education is low, complete it... If immigrated person is
non-judaic originated must complete cources to be disher, even if man is
professor.. But other immigrant who came from Warszawa and presented himself as
academician, accepted to be professor wit´hout a true diplom.. If you criticize
this dirty deal, riskable to be labelled that you collapsed on integration...
- A kind of tregistrated psycho? - Definitely!.. This is a nonsense
market... The masters of this neo-liberal "smiling fascist process" show no
pardon... Since many years the Swedish immigrant publications run by the fascist
zionist readcteurs, collaborators and inseminate false imagination... This is a
insemination what the Zionist Fascists do against thesecond class people in Tel
Aviv... In SvekJa Kingdom, by this shurk-coup drivessame project... Look at
these pages, even the Laponians counts like the second class people and never
discuss serious their minority rights, work rights by the industrial
investigations of Kingdom... They handled often like the Gypsies,more worst;
they handled like prisoners on its own marks like the Palestinians who prisoned
his own haoses there in the occupied Middle East... Do you discussuor rights
here on Immigrant pages? Never... Boldt have credit by Spaarbank and Nordea's
Jew chiefs... Why? Because, Boldt-gang is the best flexible which uses like a
condom against Human Rights...According of these shurks there is no any Zionist
Occupational Gang in the world, but Palestinians been counted as problematics...
Palestinians described like the immigrants there, what the oppressed people
behandles here in SvekJa Kingdom... Boldt and her lap-dogs manipulate the
questions of immigrants and never answer thequestions although there is two
pages for responses... - I know a Jewish paper in USA, redacteur send
letters himself and replies later instead of the true readers... -
Similar tactic!... What Big Brother do, Swedish hypocrites just imitate it...
Not only this fetty imbecill's Sesam, all other creit-addicted papers
administrations making copies of ordinary people's letters... mostly all these
half-officially "Invandrar" publication industry "brain washing instruments on
the immigrants" running on this line... what thelobbies, so-called
"registrationsnamnden" and the collaborators by the Swedish ministries like
much and therefore pumping money.. - Now I have a little question; is
Boldt-gangs are Jewish originated... - More dangereous... Members, so-called
"edsvurna" by the Zionist lobbies!...But how you guess about the origins of
these shurks?! - I

“That is ironic, seeing as mind must be a separate entity, distinct from brain, in order to be free of the constraints of determinism & causality. In essence, there really can be no free will without an independent "mind" or "soul". And that really is the irony. The atheist must make a "leap of faith" about free will, just as the believer does.”

Of course there is “free” will, however this ability to make decisions is limited by our instincts, instinctive emotions, bast biases and prejudices. You should look up the theory of bounded rationality on the Internet. Its well known in the scientific community that human mind does not work as an independent entity separate from the workings of the brain, if it did then why should damage to the organic brain cause changes to the “apparently spiritual” mind.

However atheism need not mean determinism, this biological brain does not act to constrain the human being to only instinctive acts. Indeed within the limits of our bounded rationality that evolution has given us, is the gift of problem solving and decision making, and it is this computational ability that gives us our so called “free” will, operating beneath a complex (and inherited) framework of instinct and emotion.

“But if we do discover life on another planet, then our "accident" becomes a coincidence. If we start discovering life on many planets, then the coincidence starts to look more like a law (like gravity, strong nuclear forces, etc.) rather than an accident. And a law that consistently organizes itself into life argues for rather than against a supreme being.”

The immense size and scope of the Universe refutes this argument, as it increases the likelihood that life (even in its simplest form) could evolve and emerge solely by chance. As for your criticisms of random mutation theory. What makes it so hard to understand that the fittest organism (relative to the environment and selection pressures) is the one that will always survive, with the mutation itself that led to this new organism being determined by chance alterations to the genetic code.

Of course a small genetic mutation, even if an improvement on the old, is not going to in the short term-bring about the rise of a considerably different form of organism, however it is over the long term that series of apparently disconnected genetic mutations (with constant non beneficial mutations falling to the way side), bring about into existence new forms of life. Consider for example, the common mammalian ancestor (Eomaia), and the diverse range of mammals that have derived hence, than look at the huge numbers of diverse mammalian organisms that have become extinct through the course of history. Now if there is a guiding hand (beyond random effects of natural radioactivity) behind evolution leading perhaps to the evolution of man then why all the failed mutations before hand? Why than if god is all-powerful and all-knowing, than surely he should have hit on the answer first hand? If His existence is so blatantly obvious than why has He disguised His works as natural processes?

David Elson

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David Elson | 2003-11-26 00:53 | Link

"Of course there is “free” will, however this ability to make decisions is limited by our instincts, instinctive emotions, bast biases and prejudices. You should look up the theory of bounded rationality on the Internet...However atheism need not mean determinism, this biological brain does not act to constrain the human being to only instinctive acts.

Thanks for the "bounded rationality" topic. I'll investigate further. It's been a while since I've studied metaphysics, but I believe that most of the theories at the time I studied it suggested that determinism works on a particle level as well as "by our instincts, instinctive emotions, [sic]bast biases and prejudices." That is, the neurons that comprise our "minds" are composed of smaller particles, which are controlled by the nature of their environments, which are in turn sped on their way by other particles. There was a conclusion drawn from this theory--that if one could determine the mass, direction, and velocity of every particle in the universe, one could predict the future. In that theory, there is little or no room for free will. I'm not sure if I subscribe to this theory, but that was my understanding of determinism when I made the assertions I made in my previous post.

"Indeed within the limits of our bounded rationality that evolution has given us, is the gift of problem solving and decision making, and it is this computational ability that gives us our so called “free” will..."

My old beagle had amazing problem-solving abilities--couldn't remember his f%^king name (Casey Jones)-- but he was a trememdous problem solver! Squirrels have incredible problem solving abilities when it comes to getting food from bird feeders. Does the beagle or the squirrel have "free" will? Don't know about that one. I don't know if I would include that as proof of such.

"The immense size and scope of the Universe refutes this argument, as it increases the likelihood that life (even in its simplest form) could evolve and emerge solely by chance."

Bjorn has already addressed this in his post, and I have recanted (sort of) and agree with what he had to say.

He stated, "No it does not. If we discover other planets with sentient beings who have two legs, two arms, and a head on the top, you will have a point. But there's nothing earth-specific whatsoever about evolution. Even a rare combination will occur often if the dice is thrown often enough."

Then I noted that, "I partially agree with you here, and I must back peddle a bit. You're right that beings that end up looking (and thinking) roughly like us might be offer better "proof" of a universe of design. However, if we visit 1000 planets and everyone of them has life on them, I would beg to differ with you. 1000 out of 1000 doen't seem like chance any more. Not that it can't be chance, it just seems less likely to me, that's all."

"As for your criticisms of random mutation theory. What makes it so hard to understand that the fittest organism (relative to the environment and selection pressures) is the one that will always survive, with the mutation itself that led to this new organism being determined by chance alterations to the genetic code."

Well, I really have no problem "understanding" the "fittest organism surviving" theory. My issue is with how neo-Darwinists describe how mutations occur. Does there have to be a uranium deposit nearby to explain the mutation? Does the earth have to be in a specific position relative to the sun before a useful (or even unuseful) mutation occurs? Both may be true, but I'm unsatisfied with that explaination. That's my problem. I am not a biologist, so I cannot prove what I'm about to state, but I'll state it anyway. I believe that mutations are programmed into the genetic code. And NO, I'm NOT asserting that some divinity has done the programming. While that could be a possibility, that is not what I'm claiming. Rather, if evolutionary scientists open themselves up to it, they may discover that mutations occur in a formulaic fashion. Just as gravity can be reduced to a mathematical equation based on the mass of two or more bodies and their proximities to each other, it may also be possible to reduce the occurrance of biological mutation down to a mathematical formula.

"...look at the huge numbers of diverse mammalian organisms that have become extinct through the course of history. Now if there is a guiding hand (beyond random effects of natural radioactivity) behind evolution leading perhaps to the evolution of man then why all the failed mutations before hand?"

I would suggest that the force guiding mutations is less "divine" and more phyisical. Though I'll leave that argument to the theologists. As for the number of "failed mutuations" (or possibly a better phrase--failed species), that has absolutely nothing to do with with theory I have described, that there is a natural force which dictates that mutations occur at a specific interval and in a specific way.

"Why than if god is all-powerful and all-knowing, than surely he should have hit on the answer first hand? If His existence is so blatantly obvious than why has He disguised His works as natural processes?"

Don't take this the wrong way, but you've been using the word "than" incorrectly. You should be using "then" for sequential events and "than" for comparison. ("Why THEN if god..." vs. "He's taller THAN me...") Just trying to be helpful. It does not necessarily weaken your arguments, but it is incorrect grammar.

In response to the content of your post, what you are suggesting is that if there is a god, it must be of the type described in the bible. It would create everything instantaneously without any need for forces or processes--so called subterfuge. One can believe in a supreme being WITHOUT interpreting the bible literally. If there is a supreme being, there is not a person alive who knows the nature or the mind of such. I don't believe it's so black and white. There is a god, so evolution is bullshit or vice versa. It's not so black and white.

>> "Why than if god is all-powerful and all-knowing, than surely he should have hit on the answer first hand? If His existence is so blatantly obvious than why has He disguised His works as natural processes?"

To maintain free will.

>> When you come to a point where science knows a lot about the universe and its origins and development, and there is less space for any gods than ever before, it is time to realise it is an old superstition people cling to because they are nostalgic.

But we don't know anything about it. Can you explain the 4 basic forces of nature? Why does gravity work? What makes an electron exhibit an electrical field? Why does a moving electron cause a magnetic force?

>> When there is absolutely zero evidence for the existence of any God or gods, the only rational conclusion is that there exists no such thing

There is plenty of evidence. You're applying the wrong standards. It has to be the same as those used in a court of law. When trying to prove or disprove a claim about science, you would use the scientific method. No one is claiming that God is a phenomena. The claim is that is a living Being. So, just like in a court of law, witnesses are evidence. To make your ignorant straw man claim, you would have to deal with 2000+ years of witnesses.

To make your statement even more ludicrous, you haven't dealt with any of the physical miracles that have occurred. For example, explain the miracle of image of our Lady of Guadelupe. You can start by explaining how burlap could last 500 years, then the image, then how millions of people completely opposed could change course without evidence.

Then you can explain the miraculous and documented cures at Lourdes. Then you can explain the 15000 people at Fatima who witnessed the sun miracle.

You say "no evidence", when in fact, that is a lie. If your position is so sound, why lie to advance it?

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