Countries don't obey stereotypes. Many blogs writing about the Krekar case portray Norway as a multiculturalist heaven where Muslim terrorists are tolerated, even respected. This is broadly true, if we look only at media and politics. Media treatment of Krekar has been favourable until very recently. In one of the most bizarre events last year Mullah Krekar took part in an anti-war demonstration - and noone seemed to find that odd. Multiculturalism, an excessive reaction to xenophobia which leads people to support or apologize for even the worst aspects of other cultures, worked with anti-Americanism, an irrational attribution of evil motives to Americans, and gave us the Krekar myth: Krekar, the victim of a PUK/US conspiracy, the pious conservative Muslim suspected merely because his ways are different from ours.

And yet it is the Norwegian police that, despite all this, has investigated the claims against Krekar, has worked with American intelligence, has visited the areas he worked in, and has now presented a strong case against him. While one court earlier this month ordered Krekar released in words that reeked of multiculturalism, another overturned that decision in words that didn't. There are more forces at work here than multiculturalism.

Another example: It was revealed this week that the Norwegian Police Security Service (PST) gathers intelligence on foreign students who study fields that may be of interest for countries that wish to create weapons of mass destruction - advanced chemistry, physics and biology. The PST is primarily interested in students from totalitarian countries and countries that haven't signed treates of wmd non-proliferation.

The spread of wmd technology is a far greater threat to the world than terrorism - and in combination they're extremely dangerous. Without knowing the (necessarily confidential) details, it seems to me that PST is acting sensibly. They're doing their job. Foreign governments could be sending students here to contribute to wmd research at home, and it's our responsbility to prevent that. PST's Trong Egil With says to Dagbladet that preventing the spread of wmd's has a "very high priority" in PST. That's exactly how it should be.

And as you may expect, the multiculturalists find the idea of making lists of students from specific foreign countries, most of which no doubt have ancient and sophisticated cultures, offensive. Socialist Left's Siri Hall Arnøy worries that PST has an "enemy image that creates as much problems as it solves" - a typical multicult way of putting it. In a world where there are no real enemies, the "enemy image" is the only threat left. The Norwegian Student associatian fears that foreign students may feel they are "under surveillance and suspicion", and they are "worried about what this will do with Norway's reputation abroad". Iftikhar Ahmad, leader of the Muslim Student Association in Trondheim and originally from Pakistan, feels discriminated against and under suspicion, (which is probably unwarranted as he's now a Norwegian citizen).

And in one of those fascinating yet disturbing twists of logic anti-Israelists are known for, Dagbladet wonders whether students from Israel are being watched as well, with the clear implication that if they aren't, nobody should be. After all, Israel hasn't signed any anti-proliferation treaty, and we know who the real bad guys in the Middle East are. It is, Dagbladet fears, "primarily students from countries with radical, Muslim commuinities that are of interest". Yes, probably. Anything less would be a waste of resources.

The pattern is clear. Anything that contradicts the multicultural taboo against associating foreign cultures with anything negative, no matter how rational, must be fought. All we have to fear is fear itself.

But again, what we have here is not merely a display of Norway's irredeemable subservience to multiculturalism, but a conflict between two ways of seeing the world. One is paranoid and irresponsible, the other rational and responsible. One dominates the Norwegian public sphere - for the other you must look elsewhere. The point is that both exists. Anyone who hopes to win a war of ideas needs to remember that.

I'll tell you again and again and again these forces are aligned thusly: those (the hollow ones) who give voice to the devil (whatever the devil wants they voice it); and those who have some degree of truth (Holy Spirit) in them and ability to discern the truth.

Spare me the indignant "religious talk makes me angry!" responses. I don't care what ignorant, sleeping dupes think...(I know what you think)...

ct: I gather I'm with the hollow, mouthpieces of the devil, the ignorant, sleeping dupes of Satan? Well, if you're the alternative, I'm with Satan - no doubt about that.

Even if one accepts that the dangers of terrorism and wmd are real, there are still two ways for Norway to deal with them, by limiting either means or motivation.

You advocate limiting the ability of the terrorists to attack Norway, even though this might have the side effect of alienating the radical muslims from Norway, and increasing their motivation to attack it.

But it might be that the opposite policy, of appeasement of the terrorists, which would leave them with an ability to attack Norway, but hopefully without the motivation to do so, would be better for Norway.

"Well, if you're the alternative, I'm with Satan -no doubt about that."

A childish statement. Nevertheless, if you are remarking upon the lack of mention of degree in my statement it was intentional. There are two Kingdoms. The Kingdom of Light and the Kingdom of Darkness. If you are not in the former you are in the latter. No matter how 'nuanced' you are about your position. There is no middleclass. Jesus said if you are lukewarm it is actually worse than being hot or cold.

Getting angry when you read these things, Bjorn, should tell you something...

According to Aftenposten:
"The lists pertain to students from nations outside of the Schengen area and North America.

Students from countries run by totalitarian regimes or from nations that had not ratified treaties against the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction are of special interest. "

I'm not sure how russia and poland stands on this, as I've got friends from both those countries which study "atomic physics" (more specifically .. how the heck does one translate "core physics" as in "atomic core physics" from norwegian into english? :-).

Either way, I find it a tad disturbing that these great people could be under surveilance. Both has lived in norway for more than ten years. ;-)

ct: "Getting angry when you read these things, Bjorn, should tell you something..."

But I'm not angry. I'm just telling you that if _your_ God represents the Kingdom of Light, then I'm with the Kingdom of Darkness any time. This isn't about religion or Christianity. Religion is irrational, but so is much else of human nature. It's about _your_ God, who from everything you've written about him and his interest in political affairs strikes me as very unappealing. Not sure if I can put this more clearly: Me - Satan (or at least _your_ Satan) - best pals.

Rune-Kristian Viken: "I find it a tad disturbing that these great people could be under surveilance. Both has lived in norway for more than ten years."

To put them under surveillance _only_ because of what they study would be a waste of resources. In the case of Russia and Poland, I'm not sure there's a point to going beyond a very basic check-up. If Russia wants better nukes and chemical weapons, don't you think they're able to build them without our expertise? And Poland is not much of a threat. But if there is, say, a Syrian student working on something that would be vital to a nuclear power, or a deeply religious Saudi studying fields related to bacteriological warfare, then I'd be concerned. We can't know if this is a threat without doing what PST is doing - making lists of foreign students working on these fields. This power can be abused, but nothing we've heard about this so far indicates that PST has done anything more than what is prudent.

"Not sure if I can put this more clearly: Me - Satan (or at least _your_ Satan) - best pals."

Tough guy Bjorn. Live in a world where Christian nations and soldiers aren't making you safe and secure and I suspect you are singing a different tune.

Oblomov:
[ You advocate limiting the ability of the terrorists to attack Norway, even though this might have the side effect of alienating the radical muslims from Norway, and increasing their motivation to attack it. ]

So you think terrorists are motivated by hatred of Governments that keep lists of Malaysian physics students?

Your statements about limiting the motivations of terrorists beg the question: what motivates terrorists? What do you think, Oblomov?

Rune:
It's hard for me to be sure what you mean because you are asking to translate a word from Norwegian, when you already have. I take it you are asking for the translation of kjerne. It's nucleus. Kjernefysikk: "Nuclear physics" (but it's also called atomic physics - the layman would not differentiate).

Although for the Norwegian spelling I had to look in a dictionary, by a curious coincidence, last night I was discussing the translation of nucleus and nuclear into Swedish with my fiancee (in the cell biology context).

Trevor Stanley.

ct,

Do you really consider that all those who aren't christians are ignorant dupes who's opinions are irrelevant (and also mystically already revealed to you)???

Sounds like an oxymoron to me :-)

David Elson
Brisbane.

An interesting read! I'll consider what you said over my christmas holidays. I want Office 2003 Standard great for Student & Teacher Edition 2003 for Christmas!

An interesting read! I'll consider what you said over my christmas holidays. I want The Sims 2 for Christmas!

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