The Norwegian rap group Gatas Parlament (Street Parliament) has made a website calling for the assasination of George W. Bush. The name, KillHim.nu (nu => now) is inspired by the TellHim.no campaign. "This is both intended as a joke and a little bit serious", says Don Martin. According to Elling Borgersrud: "We are against war, occupation, bombing and all that shit, but people have a right to defend themselves, and Bush is a vermin it is important to get rid of."

From the website:

KILLHIM.NU is a bipartisan, non-religious campaign which works to gather funds for a reward for shooting George W Bush.

The Bush familiy has been allowed to do enough damage towards the peoples of the world. The peoples of the world have said clearly what we feel about how the Bush family runs the world according to their own whims. When Bush refuses to listen to what the world says, Bush must go!

Our principled belief is that it is far too unproblematic to be the dominating despot of the world. It is unfair that the leader of the greatest machine of violence in history can sleep safely, while millions of people who haven't hurt a fly are daily subjected to violence and worse.

We are obviously against violence and murder, but we believe that to shoot this man is not just self defense - it is the only rational thing to do.

There's a layer of irony here - this is a "statement", not a genuine attempt at putting a price on Bush's head. But it's an ugly statement, and the American embassy is right to report the group to the police.

Gatas Parlament is a highly political, self-described communist rap group which has been popular for its anti-war lyrics. I wonder what this will do to their popularity. I genuinely have no idea. Bands always a benefit from making "controversial" statements, but surely that doesn't include calls for murder? Then again, what do I know?

But to be honest it isn't exactly original to make songs against Bush these days. All that can crawl and walk of artists, from Springsteen to P. Diddy, now show their political involvement. No, you need stronger methods to get people's attention nowadays.

Some people who have understood this are our own brilliant Gatas Parlament. I'll just say it straight: Eminem, go home, you sissy!

Gatas Parlament are not content to just rap against Bush. They've went ahead and started the campaign KillHim.nu. The campaign, which can be characterized as the evil step brother of the somewhat milder TellHim.no campaign, doesn't spare anything.

Elise Nyborg Eriksen at the online mag ABC Startsiden treats this as a joke, to be covered in a light entertainment round-up, not as an actual death threat against a political leader. She even copies a Bush picture from the website, and the text "Could somebody shoot this man?"

Norwegian newspaper have written page upon page about ugly election rhetorics in the US. But the ugliest rhetorics can be found back home.

What surprises me is that there is no more of this. The concerted anti-Bush campaign in norwegian media(and it is total) has branded Bush as moronic, evil, literally a bit of shit. A caricature of GWB in mainstream VG yesterday depicted him as just that.
It is to the honor of norwegian politicians that they haven't (except the usual suspects), participated in this, but then, no one have raised their voice in his defence either.

I am at present ashamed of my nation.

Dear Kjellis

Ashamed of your nation? That's not very patriotic is it? Gatas Parliament is a joke, I mean their latest album was called fred, frihet og alt gratis. These people represent all that right-minded people criticise about the FLF. Kudos to you if you spot the pun.

Now, who cares if they have made death threats? They're not going to kill him. It's a bit like being part of an anti-terrorist think thank in peaceful Norway, STUPID.

A completely different question is why the toxic texan is SOOOOOOOOOOOO popular. And he is, not even our very own Carl I. gets as much publicity as ol' FAITHful.

Of course none of this matters he is still going to win, but I say no matter what it's only for four more years, and if we're lucky Carl Rove will get exposed.

Oh yeah, the principle of a death threat is bad, but unless you happen to be part of a revolutionary group in Iraq, nothing much is going to come of it. Fear begets fear my friend, you will die from old age or cancer in the colon (or possibly both) just like the rest of us.

I am present (and always) dead proud of my nation.

I see that you've read my article. First of all I think it should be clarified that I write a column that aspires to describe phenomenon that occurs on the Net.

It is also a column that is written in an humoristic and sarcastic manner. Maybe I've done a poor job there, as it seems like Bjørn is taken everything I write (litterally) deadly seriously.

I really don't think that my comment would enhance the chance of Bush getting killed. And to just to make sure you understand me I have to add that I dont "really" mean that Eminem is a "sissy" either.

So if you're looking for examples of how biased the norwegian media is in relationship to the coming election, maybe you should use articles that don't use such litterary means as irony and sarcasm.

Elise N Eriksen

We'll we Americans will just have to strike back
by having some of our bands make joking death threats against Nowheregian politicians. That is if you could find a band in the US that could actually name a Nowheregian politician.

Let's be honest about this, Nowhere like much of her wretched European neighbors importance to the world is on the micoscopic level.

So, Elise you keep writing your zany, funny column for the ten Nowheregians that actually read it.

What happened to their website?

I'm sure these rappers would scream bloody murder if SOMEONE ELSE put up a "Kill The Group Gatans Parlament" website.

And again, it's dèja-vu time: artists shouting that President X is a cowboy, a warmonger, a tool of the rich, an imperialist, an idiot, etc... Exactly what they said about Ronald Reagan. It's an old script, and I know all the lines. NOT impressed.

Here's a little rap I improvised, dedicated to Gatans Parlament... give me a good beat, DJ!

*Boom, ka-chunk, boom, ka-chunk*

"I'm a political rapper,
I'm as deep as a channel zapper!
I scream about freedom of speech,
but I suck like a leech!
It's safe to be hero on a sound stage,
I don't have to fight in the terrorist age,
I love to tell Bush that he's such a pr**k,
Then I go down on Saddam Hussein's d**k!"

Word.

-A.R.Yngve
http://yngve.bravehost.com

I'm just laughing my ass off of the fact that people actually take this thing seriously. And I just love seing Americans get personally offended by something like this and try to (with pride) defend their nation of fools.

This has been entertainment at its best!

Keep up the good work everybody ;)

Unfortunately, the arguments of geir and mono makes me even more ashamed. Toxic texan, cancer of the colon, killing Bush? All jokes?

You may be laughing, but that does not mean you are funny.

It can only be an infantile and irresponsible worldview which makes expressions like those possible.
These views are however,not only those of geir, mono and gatas parlament.
They are shared, and made,by media too. And that's what so depressing.

Elise Nyborg Eriksen: * It is also a column that is written in an humoristic and sarcastic manner. Maybe I've done a poor job there, as it seems like Bjørn is taken everything I write (litterally) deadly seriously. *

That is an odd defence considering that Bjørn explicitly wrote that you treat this as a joke. It is very disingenious to avert criticism by deliberately misunderstanding it. That is called a staw man attack, a fallacy in logic.

Remember what Piet Hein wrote:

"Den der kun tager spøg for spøg og alvor kun alvorligt. Han har fattet begge dele lige dårligt"

"He who only takes jokes as a joke, and the serious only seriously, have actually understood both equally badly." (except it rhymes in Danish).

Publishing a picture of the US President with the caption "could somebody shoot this man" is not funny, but extremely tasteless. It is only "funny" to people who actually hate Bush enough to want him dead, even if they consider literal incitement to murder over the top.

Would you print a picture of Kristin Halvorsen (SV aka Socialist Left leader) with the same caption? Would it be funny?

What the (c)rappers did is clearly a serious crime in Norway, and should be treated accordingly. Maybe a prison term will give the boys some "street cred"? They sure can't expect to get it based on musical crieria.

PS: Yngve, that "rap" was just brilliant!

“Kill Bush”? Remind me to laugh.
Leftist Culture = Realm of Dwarfs.

Personally, as an American living in Norway, I find all the hostility towards the US pretty funny. Whereas death threats aren't cool, I like to know the person making them before taking them at face level. Makes it easier to find out if they're BS-ing.

Kjell, you SHOULD be proud o' yer country, simply because no one has deemed it important enough to try and drag into openly into war with some other nation, so we don't have to deal with half the country getting even more confused with its opinion on the matter than it already is. Thank goodness we live in peaceful Norway!

Also, on a side note, I find it somewhat dissapointing that other Americans can't even spell a simple word like 'NORWEGIAN' and instead get 'NOWHEREGIAN', and even managed to get 'NORWAY' wrong. I mean, it's not one of those really hard words like, say, politician, which I must say you managed to get right. Have a cookie.

Check killhim.nu again. All content is now removed and replaced by a police letter ordering the content removed.

Elise Nyborg Eriksen: It is also a column that is written in an humoristic and sarcastic manner. Maybe I've done a poor job there, as it seems like Bjørn is taken everything I write (litterally) deadly seriously.

But I actually wrote that you treat this as a joke. I don't believe that you seriously want Bush dead, and I don't believe Gatas Parlament would actually seek out a Bush assasin and pay him money. They, too, see this partly as a joke. My point is that it isn't a joke to call for the assasination of a politician, and definitely not to do so as part of a political discussion, as Gatas Parlament is doing here. The threat of assasination is a real factor in American politics, and in many other countries - even Sweden and the Netherlands. We should treat this kind of rhetorics not as a joke but as a disturbing symptom.

Mister Ghost: So, Elise you keep writing your zany, funny column for the ten Nowheregians that actually read it.

Hey, watch it. No personal attacks.

It is also a column that is written in an humoristic and sarcastic manner.

I think all young girls should be raped. (just kidding).

I think that a nuclear explosion in Paris would be just Super! (just kidding)

I think all jews should be sent to camps and exterminated (just kidding, of course)

Gosh, I'm funny. NOT.

I really don't think that my comment would enhance the chance of Bush getting killed.

Neither did the writers in Weimar Republic think that what they wrote would actually result in the "final solution".

Neither did the racists in a tavern who were joking about killing Lincoln. Too bad John Wilkes Booth was nearby.

This is not straightforward humor: it's purpose is to make hatred acceptable. It's generally not OK to voice hate; you have to find a way to legitimize it. If you say "Kill X," that's socially unacceptable, and it should be. But if you gift wrap it as "What we should do is shoot X (tee hee)," people may laugh it off—or agree with you. And just in case they don't, you have created some deniability, so that you don't have to own up to your hate if someone calls you on it. All in all, it's a fairly cowardly tactic. Although Gatas Parlament may have taken care to include an element of humor as their fig leaf, they are being dishonest if they try to pretend that it's more humor than hate. I haven't read Eriksen's piece, and so am not in a position to judge whether her humor is of the same kind, or a barb against Gatas Parlament, or something else.

How excactly did people from USA find this page? Seems kinda strange to me... Well glad there's someone that recognizes our "tiny little influence" as a threat :P and about Bush... I don't think anyone can get that people to work together, especially not Bush. He seems more interested in his rich friends. Honestly, if you picked an average guy or girl from anywhere they would be better than any of the currents candidates.

Hadn't the members of this musical group best be dealt with by having a stern word with their parents? And as far as ABC Startsriden is concerned, it could save itself embarrassment of this kind by shelling out enough money to hire better columnists. There have got to be some even in a country as small as Norway.

I did not see Gatas parlaments message before the police erased it, so I don't know what they were trying to say, but I can say this: if Gatas parlament really think that Bush is the problem and that getting wrid of him will help at all, they are dreaming. Just as Bush is dreaming when he thinks a war on terrorism will ever do anything but breed more terrorism. Bush and Gatas parlament all seem to be unable to analyze a problem before trying to solve it.

"Gatas parlament" really wants Dick Cheney for US president!

I'm happy to see that so many people engaging seriously in this debate. I totally agree that it can't "hide" behind the fact that I wrote in a humoristic manner. When that is said I want to emphasize one more time that I write about phenomenons at the Net. This thing with "Gatas Parlament" was the biggest thing that happened on the web in Norway on that particular day. So my question is: Should I have ignored it? Should I've not have informed my readers about one of the biggest news-stories that day? And if your answer is yes, wouldn't that be violation of the freedom of speech?

When that is said I have to congratulate Bjørn on the high quality of the debate on his blog.

Gosh.

I find this debate ridiculous. Not often in Bjørns blog, but truly.

Here we have the Norwegian "rap" group "Gatas Parlament", which has some pretty good/funny songs/puns, which tries to make an ironic joke that fails dismally.

.. and they get the police after them ..

.. for what is nothing but their typical kind of irony/joke/whatever.

Then we have the ABC Startsiden columnist, who seems not to know that 'freedom of speech' of course doesn't include having to repeat stupidity, and then goes on to try and defend herself. First through a straw man argument, and then by arguing that ignoring it would be a violation of freedom of speech.

*sigh*.

Now my opinion.

There is no need to go bananas over Gatas Parlament. They're a stupid extreme-left-wing fringe rap group with some good but mostly bad songs. They're not serious, and shouldn't be treated as serious. They should quite simply be ignored.

Those that treat them as serious ridicule themselves. That includes the american embassy. That includes the norwegian police - and unfortunately, that includes Bjørn - in this particular case.

(PS: Sorry Bjørn! I'll buy you a beer as a private appology for that comment! ;)

Peter, Norway actually has troops in both Iraq and Afghanistan. I have friends serving in both places. We also train Iraqi security forces here in Norway.
And that is something I am not ashamed of. It means sharing international duties, even when it is unpopular with the media.

Elise, it is good to experience someone admitting they were not perfectly correct. We need more commenters like you.

Maybe there is hope after all.

Should I have ignored it? Should I've not have informed my readers about one of the biggest news-stories that day? And if your answer is yes, wouldn't that be violation of the freedom of speech?

Elise, freedom of speech can only be violated by the government. So, you cannot violate speech rights by deciding that what they said was irresponsible, ugly, or dangerous. Discretion is the better part of valor.

Now, the Right to liberty (of which speech is one example), is always limited in the sense that "you have a right to life, liberty and property, to the extent you don't violate anyone else's right to life, liberty and property. So, you can shout obscenities, but you don't have a right to use someone else's property (like a microphone, without their permission). That's why, falsely shouting "fire" in a crowded theatre is not protected speech, since it violates the theatre owners's right to property. And since a death threat is a threat, it's a violation of the right to life. In addition, US Federal law makes threatening the life of the president a serious crime. If these folks enter the US, they could be arrested or detained and deported. That would spoil a vacation, eh?

Jan Haugland has a good point. If Bush were assassinated the uber-evil Dick Cheney would become president. I can only assume that this outcome would be worse than the status quo from a loony leftists point of view.

Paul M also makes a good point when he says that this call for assassination is described as humor in order to "create some deniability, so that you don't have to own up to your hate if someone calls you on it." Well done Paul.

My take on this flap, is that the people in this band have too much time on their hands. They should take a break from smoking weed and shooting heroin and then either find a job or a hobby that will fill the hours they spend dreaming up this nonsense.

Rune-Kristian Viken: There is no need to go bananas over Gatas Parlament. They're a stupid extreme-left-wing fringe rap group with some good but mostly bad songs. They're not serious, and shouldn't be treated as serious. They should quite simply be ignored.

Maybe you're right. At least I don't belive this is very important. There's something pathetic about the whole thing. But it falls into a pattern of European Bush critics who play with rhetoric about assasination, and that was why I mentioned it. Similar things have been said in Sweden and Britan.

Sorry Bjørn! I'll buy you a beer as a private appology for that comment!

A practice more readers should emulate!

No one objected when so many american singers and bands sang songs calling for the death of Bin laden , after all, what is the difference between Bin laden and Bush ? both are terrorists, both are killers apart from the fact that Bush is MORE terrorist since he killed up to 100,000 innocent Iraqi Muslims mostly women and childern, not to forget the innocents in Afghanistan !

WESTERN HYPOCRISY AT WORK AGAIN.

I think Gatas Parlament just have experienced what Bush should realize. To strong expressions will backfire.
They have been anti-war, but as they crossed the line of accepted argument, people turned their backs on them.
Bush has been anti terrorism, and after 9.11 the rest of the world supported him in that.
Since he has crossed too many lines of what would be expected as fair fight, the rest of the world has started turning against him. The best would be if he was not re-elected as that would show that USA actually do care about fair fights and justice in foreign affairs.
It is not to late for the states to save the position as the global leader the rest of the world supports, instead of being the global dictator the rest of the world hates.

Sorry Bjørn! I'll buy you a beer as a private appology for that comment!

A practice more readers should emulate!

Very well, Bjørn. Rune Kristian—buy him two beers.

Who cares about Gatas Parlament?They are nothing new and nothing special,they screwed up ..let them pay for it.Norway is a great country ,and I wonder why so many Americans even care about us because the only thing 90% of you here type is how small and unimportant country nNorway is..Hell without us Europeans there wouldn't be any U.S would it?
I think the election is the whole worlds buisness because Bush has affected many lives all over the world ,plain facts.

The American Embassy and the Secret Service don't take it seriously because they don't understand left-wing morons will be left-wing morons but because it is their job to take death threats against the president seriously.

I still find it amusing that so few Euros rebel against their socialist educational and media establishment commissars. Somebody above mentioned 'nation of fools'. You repeat every word and thought your Euro socialist commissars drill into your mushy head and you call Americans 'fools' because our own left-wing media and educational establishments just can't seem to have a similar effect on us.

We have what's called independence of mind (and a 2nd ammendment if the socialist sh** get a little too giddy...)

In the wake of the murder of Pim Fortuyn only 2 years ago by the type of person who probably thinks Gatas Parliament is great, I don't see why anyone here dismisses them as "a joke." Clearly there are plenty of leftists out there who would be happy to see someone off Bush. It's disingenuous to pretend any different. The far EuroLeft has already made it crystal clear that they will support assassination of anyone they consider as having "inconvenient" opinions. I saw many people applauding the murder of Fortuyn on left-wing talkboards like that of The Guardian (UK publication which also recently published a "joke" about killing Bush). I have friends in a certain Scandinavian country (not Norway) who have been physically threatened for having what is perceived as pro-American or pro-Bush viewpoints.

Side note: I think a lot of Americans like to read Bjorn precisely because he has a different viewpoint than 95 percent of the other Europeans who seem to march in ideological lockstep with their government-controlled media and acedmic elites. It's a bit refreshing to note that a few of you can think for yourselves on any issue without first consulting "the received wisdom"

"Ex-Christian, now Muslim"

translated:

Ex-Fake-Christian, now openly hellbent fool.

(This is theology 101, Bjorn, not a personal attack...)

Susan writes:
"I think a lot of Americans like to read Bjorn precisely because he has a different viewpoint than 95 percent of the other Europeans who seem to march in ideological lockstep with their government-controlled media and academic elites."

Direct hit. (Though, as I've noted, Bjorn is perilously on the edge always, it seems, to succumbing to the socialist media bubble and mindless echo-chamber he is forced to live in.)

alexander,

Well, there's always Johan Norberg's blog. :)

Because we've had assassinations, attempted and successful, many here find such "humor" objectionable. We would also find ourselves angry with an American group suggesting such action for Norway's royalty, for example. But the "humor" is not exclusive to one country or two, especially when those desiring attention discover that the more outrageous the speech, the more likely it is to be reported. I'm not losing sleep over it, but I don't work with the Secret Service, either.

AG Nårvai: Bjørn Stærk is highly regarded by many Americans. I learned of this site from MattWelch.com. Being of Norwegian descent, I enjoy reading the work of Norwegians along with my usual fare.

>> Norway is a great country

You're right, it is.

>> and I wonder why so many Americans even care about us because the only thing 90% of you here type is how small and unimportant country Norway is

So many? There seems to be a handful, most of which seem to have some connection to Norway.

>>..Hell without us Europeans there wouldn't be any U.S would it?

It was formed from Europeans, but they had a lot to do to correct euro problems. England gave us 200 years of slavery, which the US took only 70 years to get rid of it, but with tremendous loss of life. Thanks Europe. Like a child learning from a really bad parent, America learned from Europe everything NOT to do: slavery, concentrated power, lack of religious freedom, lack of democracy, lack of human rights, colonialism, lack of freedom of the press.

>>I think the election is the whole worlds buisness because Bush has affected many lives all over the world ,plain facts.

By that logic, the world should be able to vote in the norwegian election, since Norway affects lives as well (legitimized a terrorist (Arafat), and helped cause even more misery in the mid east).

Socialism leads to unimportance. India was extremely socialistic for a long time, and the world hardly noticed a billion people. Same with China. The soviets had a big effect, but their socialism drained them of power. Europe is fading for the same reason.

For a while there (50s - 80s), America was still trying to impress Europe, and vietnam made the US lose it's way. Now, america is starting to break out of negativism to regain what was lost. Everyone knows that a second Bush presidency is really big. The US could finally abandon some of it's socialist burdens. The resulting growth spurt will just make everyone feel that much more inadequate. Sorry about that, nothing stopping you from coming along, except yourselves.

With regime change in Iran and Syria, the palestinian crisis goes away, along with terrorism. Sorry Norway, no more Chamberlin-like meetings and accords with madmen, exclaiming peace in our time. Like Patton said, victories on the battle field advance the cause of liberty more than negotiations ever could.

If what I write makes you mad, get yourself really worked up by reading:

http://victorhanson.com/articles/hanson102304.html

It's a mistake for Norwegians to assume that 90% (or whatever) of Americans consider Norway and its people insignificant. That just isn't so. But upon reading some posts here, presumably by Americans, I can understand how one might come to that unfortunate conclusion. There are many whose primary abilities are best displayed in a negative fashion, perhaps because they are essentially negative about nearly everything or driven to grinding contrary opinion into dust. If they tire of denigrating America they will skewer Denmark or Finland as relief from their heavy lifting here. You get the picture. I'll be more specific later, but I wanted to address this larger concern first.

Mr. Overbo:

Of course most Americans don't care what Norwegians think. Hell, most of us don't care what Canadians think, and they're right next door.

I'm not entirely sure that most Norwegians (or Canadians, for that matter) care what Americans think either, though. What they seem to care about is how Americans should think, according to their own Norwegian view of the world, present company, of course, excepted.

And with that (self-constructed and kind of silly) straw man statement out of the way, I can see both sides of this argument. Death threats as a form of humor tell you more about the people who find them funny than anything else, and the group obviously has too much time on their hands.

I was going to type "I think I'll kill them. Just kidding." to end this comment. But I thought about how that would look. Not good. Not even funny, and really over the top. So I erased it. See how easy that was?

(yes, I know I typed it anyway, but I put it in quotation marks and clearly indicated that I disagree with the sentiment, and shouldn't that count for something? Anyhow, I hope the Norwegian police don't come after me)

Me: "It's a mistake for Norwegians to assume that 90% (or whatever) of Americans consider Norway and its people insignificant."

Sebastian: "Of course most Americans don't care what Norwegians think. Hell, most of us don't care what Canadians think, and they're right next door."

Our differences are significant .

I think that a nuclear explosion in Paris would be just Super! (just kidding)

i hope that you have noticed that some of your "politicians" (senators as far as i remember) have made such "jokes" (without the nuke tbh)

Best regards,
Sensi, paris ;)

Susan | 2004-10-31 02:52 |

«Side note: I think a lot of Americans like to read Bjorn precisely because he has a different viewpoint than 95 percent of the other Europeans who seem to march in ideological lockstep with their government-controlled media and acedmic elites. It's a bit refreshing to note that a few of you can think for yourselves on any issue without first consulting "the received wisdom"»

lol, this is actually fun to see that on each part of the atlantic ocean we are thinking that the others are subject to a misinformation or manipulation from media and politics; the thing that is no more fun is than on a side they are still fooled by liars... and seems to like that.
all the facts shows that this time we were right.

regards,
Sensi

Side note: 100.000 iraqi civilians killed since march 2003, 5 times more people than by 20 years of terrorism... clap clap clap.

Sensi: boy, are you behind the times. That 100,000 "study" has been debunked by the blogosphere a long time ago (i.e. by a couple of days - a long time in blogosphere time).

Get with it, slave of Mass Media! These studies are planted for short-term effect to swing political opinion right before the election. You'll see later that other studies will come forward - after the election - to debunk this one.

i hope that you have noticed that some of your "politicians" (senators as far as i remember) have made such "jokes" (without the nuke tbh)

No, I haven't noticed any joke that wishes something bad to happen to France or the french president. I heard jokes like:

How many frenchmen does it take to defend Paris?

No one knows, it's never been tried.

@ RSN | 2004-11-01 13:22

debunked by the blogosphere? lol,
a well-known institution founded in 1832 saying lies? show me a link boy, i will be glad to know the truth from an objective blog ^^ and sorry i'm not a blog addict even if this one is very interesting. I watch LCI, Euronews, BBC world, CNN, i read Reuters news, Afp news & translated newspapers from all over the world: that don't make my opinion, but in the middle of all that the facts are here. Also my father his a member of parliament thus i can tell you that i have also news thru not mass media but more intelligence networks.

@ Gunnar, Maryland | 2004-11-01 16:25

well you should find that, there was a lot of "after bagdad, paris" jokes from your politicians during the fascist french bashing time, i have little time but i will try to find that for you.

Best regards,
Sensi

@ Gunnar, Maryland

well, i don't have found any evidence of that, at least on Internet, sorry, but trust me, this have been said during the french bashing campaign following the UN disagreement.

Best regards,
Sensi

I wrote about this some days ago, in much the same manner as you.. sometimes its hard to separate their bullshit from what their just doing to revive the interest in their album.. Im not sure they even know what they think. But as someone who still embraces the decrepit, utterly discredited system of communism in Norway 2004, I guess they`re not REALLY in touch with reality anyway, nor wishing to be.

http://theneedtoknowbasis.blogspot.com/2004/10/norwegian-left-rap-group-wants-to-kill.html#comments

Errr... Gunnar, you do realize that Americans held African slaves for quite some time? You can't blame Europeans for the bad times in America, and then suddenly call them Americans when things go good :P Besides, is it democracy to cheat on the election? Wich kinda happend about 4 years ago. And what's this about the our "government controlled" media? Political advertising isn't allowed on tv here... You gotta get over this communist-stuff... Some people act like the average American is a fundamental christian, gunloving hillbilly... I sincerely hope that's not true...

@ Ag Norway | 2004-11-02 15:30

If you are speaking of:

Gunnar, Maryland | 2004-10-31 05:44

« America learned from Europe everything NOT to do: slavery, concentrated power, lack of religious freedom, lack of democracy, lack of human rights, colonialism, lack of freedom of the press. »

I will totally be agree with you, we seems to know better their history than they do, lol.
Gunnar, type USA + slavery, USA + human/civil rights, ..., in Google, you will have all the ressources from here :)
excepting concentrated power & lack of religious freedom (scientologists & waco sects), all you have said is wrong, concerning colonialism: when you put dictators everywhere you need it's just another method and remember than the whole USA is a colony, where native americans were massacred, lol.

Best regards,
Sensi

But anyway, too collect money for a murder, or
pretend to do so are kinda low life, seen with
Norwegian or US and even Icelands eyes.

You aint the brightest person when the only way
to get your meaning out are on that way, you aint
the best band either. I think you are a lowlife
bad band that wants to be in the media. (I
like Norwegian rap, thats my music :) )

To the american peopel, I must be honest Norway
don't have much to say and US do have much to say.
And why Bush are "hated" no I think I write
it hated, are couse US with bush fronting
everything, and saying, we don't care about
the world, we knows whats best for the "world"
(Read: US).

They (You) totaly ignore the worlds meaning
(Read: UN)and thats what lunches these tellhim.no
and killhim.nu. One site made by smart people
and one some lesser gifted people.

Sorry for my bad English, everything looks better
in my head then on this site

>> Gunnar, you do realize that Americans held African slaves for quite some time? You can't blame Europeans for the bad times in America, and then suddenly call them Americans when things go good :P

The european colonial power, England had colonies and established slavery there. USA didn't exist until 1789. English Colony from 1607 to 1789, 182 years. The americans argued about slavery at the founding, and every decade thereafter, the issue became bigger. It took only 70 years to start abolishing it. For those 70 years, americans paid dearly (Civil war had more american casualties than any other war). But it was abolished because it contradicted the heart of american thought: all men are created equal. So, America itself can't be sullied by slavery, which was inherited from the british, which we revolted against with the words: that all men are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights, among these are life, LIBERTY and the pursuit of happiness.

>> Besides, is it democracy to cheat on the election? Wich kinda happend about 4 years ago.

The US democracy is not perfect. However, all the election fraud was on the democratic side. Folks repeating a falsehood over and over again doesn't make it true, it's an urban legend. It was the democrats that tried to steal the election.

>> And what's this about the our "government controlled" media

Ok, I stand corrected, but at least NRK is government owned.

What are the bank details? Do you accept credit card payments?

It's not right to say that someone should kill another person. But is G. B. a person?

I see you all when we get the next World War. And we know already who is going to start it.

Since I'm a Latin American, I know very well what kind of politics our "brothers" in the North have in mind.

And I hope that no Yankee comes here to criticize my English because they cann't write the language either.

And for all the Yankees: Stop to call your country America. USA is not the hole continent. You are only dream of it.

Viva America Latina!

And Yes! Norway is a nice country. Only fool Norwegians cann't see it.

hilsen

Eagle, the latin

@ Gunnar, Maryland | 2004-11-01 16:25

i do not know how i can have not reacted to that...

«I heard jokes like:
How many frenchmen does it take to defend Paris?
No one knows, it's never been tried.»

It's of course not a joke but an insult to all our soldiers that are dead defending our country.
This pathetic "joke" come from ROY BLUNT, actually a racist lil dick & ignorant republican indeed.
(cf. http://www.miquelon.org/politicians.html )

Some statistics for those that don't want to stay as ignorant as they are (past century will be enuff):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I_casualties
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_War_II_casualties_by_country

The reasons of the american help in soldiers to France, years after the start of the wars:

WW1 (1914-1918):

February 24, 1917: United States ambassador to the United Kingdom Walter H. Page is given the Zimmermann Telegram, in which the German Empire offers to give the American Southwest back to Mexico if Mexico declares war on the United States
April 6, 1917: The United States declares war on Germany

WW2 (1939-1945):

December 11, 1941, Germany declared war on the United States following the Attack on Pearl Harbor by Japan

French losses amounted to 40% of the men mobilised in 1939.

Allied soldiers killed:
- France and Free French Forces: 210,000
- United States: 292,000

Relating to me, during WW1: my mother's side great-grandfather lose two brothers, killed in combat. During WW2: My mother's side grand-father, who was a captain, lose one of his brother, killed in combat, was heavy woundered then a PoW, the dad of my grand-mother was shot by Germans during a reprisal against civilian after resistante acts (he was the mayor of a little village in the Alpes).

Thus i really hope that this pitiful "joke" have gave you some great pleasure Gunnar, and that you are no more ignorant on that topic.

Best regards,
Sensi

«Perhaps Congressman Blunt should visit the graves of the Frenchmen who lost their lives for their country during World War I (the first two-thirds of which, by the way, the U.S. sat out). One of them, my great-grandfather Jean-Marie Le Corre, died in the muddy trenches of eastern France in 1915. His death plunged his family, never comfortable to begin with, into abject poverty. His name is engraved on a memorial near a small church in Brittany. They say that he was a handsome guy, popular with the ladies and always good for a joke. Because of him and 1.4 million other young men who sacrificed their lives for their country, Paris didn't fall.» - Ted Rall

«To most Americans, war is impersonal. War is dropping a few harmless bombs on foreign countries, the regrettable-but-heroic deaths of a handful of American soldiers, collateral damage, mopping up, peacekeeping, General Schwarzkopf on TV explaining smart bombs.
But to Europeans, war is personal. Their parents and grandparents—and even some of those living today—have experienced war first-hand. They've seen the destruction of their own homes, the loss of the property they worked a lifetime to accumulate, the murder of relatives and close friends, whole cities flattened, dead bodies decomposing in pools of blood, the brutality of conquering soldiers, damage that's far from collateral, and outcomes far different from what was promised. To them, war is real—not a video game.
Maybe the reason they don't talk in macho terms is because they know what they're talking about.» - Those Shameful Frenchmen by Harry Browne

"Gunnar, Maryland | 2004-11-04 23:16 | Link

The european colonial power, England had colonies and established slavery there. USA didn't exist until 1789. English Colony from 1607 to 1789, 182 years. The americans argued about slavery at the founding, and every decade thereafter, the issue became bigger. It took only 70 years to start abolishing it. For those 70 years, americans paid dearly (Civil war had more american casualties than any other war). But it was abolished because it contradicted the heart of american thought: all men are created equal. So, America itself can't be sullied by slavery, which was inherited from the british, which we revolted against with the words: that all men are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights, among these are life, LIBERTY and the pursuit of happiness."

Ehm, well as history goes England outlawed slave trading in 1807. They then forced almost every other nation to do the same because the english parliament finally discovered the inherit evil of slavery. The only major nations who wouldnt budge was USA and France who repeatedly refused to allow Royal Navy ships to inspect American and French merchantmen to discover if they were slavers. Granted, USA outlawed importing slaves at roughly the same time, but they kept the institution of slavery going for another 50 years, and refused to help britain stem the flow of slaves from Afrika to South America. So yes, USA can be sullied be slavery, as their attitudes helped prolong the transatlantic slavetrade.

Besides, the American civil war was not about slaves, it was all about who had the biggest dick. The confederacy couldnt stand being told what to do by Washington, and Washington couldnt stand not being obeyed. The issue at hand just happend to be slaves.

... so there :) (and yes i believe we're a little off topic now....)

>> Besides, the American civil war was not about slaves

If you believe that, then you are truly ignorant of american history.

>> Thus i really hope that this pitiful "joke" have gave you some great pleasure Gunnar, and that you are no more ignorant on that topic.

I am sorry for offending you. I honor your relatives killed defending France. I also have relatives killed defending Norway.

There seems to a double standard when it comes to offending Americans.

And while casualties could be virtuous, there is no virtue in accepting more casualties than absolutely necessary. The American strategy of break out in Normandy, and storming across france to cut off whole german armies was one designed for victory with a minimum of casualites.

We haven't forgetton about Libya. In the 1980’s when President Reagan ordered US planes to bomb Libya after a terrorist bombing, it was the French who would not grant the US permission to use their airspace. This later resulted in one US pilot not making it back from the mission.

When Germany invaded France, some patriots made their way to England and continued to fight with General DeGaulle and the Free French forces throughout the war. But apparently, the vast majority of frenchmen sided with the German forces (Vichy France). Some say that there were more French Nazi’s and forces that fought with Germany than ever fought with the Allies.

Captured US troops that fell into Germans hands were sometimes paraded through some French towns. The French threw rocks and other objects at their would-be liberators for causing damage to their country. Apparently, this is documented on film and from the interviews of some allied soldiers.

In 1966 France pulled its military out of the NATO command while at the same time removing all NATO forces from their country. So, they benefit from US protection from the soviets, while refusing to help, which certainly pleased the soviets.

At one point, France had 60 divisions to Germany's 5. My point is that Nazi germany was not an unstoppable force. Because of appeasement, millions died. It's the difference between intelligence and wisdom. If france wants to be viewed with respect, it should actually learn the lesson of its own history and reject appeasement. Did they?

The UN france veto of the use of force is a great victory for appeasement. It has relegated the UN, and therefore France to complete irrelevance. And now we find out that the French vote against freedom was because France was being bribed by Saddam.

General Patton said it best when he concluded that “I would rather have a German division in front of me, than a French one behind me.”

"It was the democrats that tried to steal the election."
Nope... Pretty sure it was republicans that announced Bush won before the votes were counted, used overdue votes from soldiers outside the US and made it so that innocent people with names similar to criminals couldn't vote in Florida... Or did democrats do that to undermine themselves?

"So, America itself can't be sullied by slavery, which was inherited from the british, which we revolted against with the words: that all men are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights, among these are life, LIBERTY and the pursuit of happiness."
"
Except gay people right :P Don't forget that the people you fought against to liberate slaves (wich didn't really happen 'cause black people didn't get rights for a few decades after that..) were also Americans...

"Folks repeating a falsehood over and over again doesn't make it true, it's an urban legend."
You mean like when President Bush said: Iraq has connections with al qhaida because Iraq has connections with al qhaida?

And by the way... Who helped you defeat the British in the independence war? The French...

And on-topic: What they did was not very smart, but it is kinda ironic that the man who set prizes on so many arabian heads got a bounty on himself...

AG: Nope... Pretty sure it was republicans that announced Bush won before the votes were counted, used overdue votes from soldiers outside the US and made it so that innocent people with names similar to criminals couldn't vote in Florida... Or did democrats do that to undermine themselves?

The key thing to remember is that the people who tell you this are Democratic partisans. Similarly, Republican partisans have made a lot of heated counter-accusations. American politics is a trench war. Outsiders are easily suckered into the worldview of one of the camps, but that's a temptation you should resist. The moment you identiy Democrats as the "good guys", the party that stands up for noble ideals, and the Republicans as the "bad guys", who stand for corruption and evil, that moment you lose sight of reality.

I'm not saying there isn't a truth about the 2000 election to be found somewhere, nor that what you're saying is completely false. I'm just warning you that the truth is not as obvious as you think it is. The election was obviously stolen only in the eyes of partisans. It's one thing for an American to be a partisan for an American party, but why should you as a Norwegian identify so strongly with a party you probably don't agree with, in a country far away?

Pretty sure it was republicans that announced Bush won before the votes were counted, used overdue votes from soldiers outside the US and made it so that innocent people with names similar to criminals couldn't vote in Florida... Or did democrats do that to undermine themselves?

Bjørn has good advice on this. And if you think I'm a partisan, you would be soo wrong. I am conservative, but I support the truth, no matter who it benefits or hurts. When playing futbal, and I see one of my team members commit a foul not seen by the ref, I pull back: "I don't want to win that way."

Ok, some facts:

1) Left leaning networks called the election for Gore, even though the data didn't support that conclusion. They did so, even before the polls had closed in the republican pan handle, where many were waiting in line. An objective study of this concluded that Bush lost thousands of votes when people just went home. NBC was the first to incorrectly project a Gore win in Florida at 7:49. CNN waited six minutes to incorrectly project Gore—an eternity in election projections. ABC waited an interminable thirteen minutes to make the incorrect call. Fox News had been the third network to project a Gore win in Florida earlier in the evening.

2) When Fox News called Florida for Bush, the VNS numbers indicated—accurately, as it turns out—that it would be impossible for Gore to overcome Bush’s lead. By 1:30 A.M., with 95 percent of Florida’s precincts counted, VNS had Bush winning with about a sixty thousand-vote lead. At 2:00 A.M. Gore would have needed to win 64 percent of the remaining 5 percent of votes to surpass Bush’s lead. Within three minutes and forty-one seconds, every other network had made the same call.

2) there were reports of fraud, but all indicated a democratic origin. THere was a report of absentee ballots being thrown away by democrats. There were reports of folks who complained that they didn't get an absentee ballot, and the election people said, "you already voted for Gore". There were reports that ballots in republican areas being punched through, so that they would show up as double votes, disqualifying them. There were reports of whole military bases being sent out on exercises just before the election. The military votes from overseas were not overdue, they had time, but there were reports of lawyers doing everything they could to have them not counted.

3) Democrats controlled all the counties where the vote count was in question, so if this was a conspiracy, it was pretty impressive to involve democrats in the scheme. It was obviously unfair to recount the big democratic counties, changing the standard to benefit Gore, while not re-counting any republican counties.

4) Even with all that, Bush won. Subsequent analysis by the non partisan entities concluded that Bush won.

What Moore doesn’t show is that a six-month study in 2001 by news organizations including The New York Times, the Washington Post and CNN found just the opposite. Even if the Supreme Court had not stopped a statewide recount, or if a more limited recount of four heavily Democratic counties had taken place, Bush still would have won Florida and the election.

5) The FL supreme court tried something extremely unconstitutional. Our constitution says that state legislatures are responsible for choosing electors. The counties, controlled by democrats had reported their results, and election had been certified by the executive branch. The Florida Legislature would pick electors if votes were not certified by deadline, dec 12. When the FL supreme court prevented the Harris from doing her simple duty, the proper next step would have been for the legislature to pick the electors. The US supreme court didn't select Bush, they just remanded back, stopping the FL supreme court from interfering in the election process in a partisan way.

And a big civil rights commission was set up to see if any blacks were denied the right to vote, and despite huge efforts, they couldn't find one person. The 3 witnesses they did have were asked if they voted, and they said "yes". Case closed.

So, despite amazing efforts by Gore to steal the election, Bush won.

I don't view the democrats as the good guys, more like the lesser of two evils :P

«The UN france veto of the use of force is a great victory for appeasement. It has relegated the UN, and therefore France to complete irrelevance. And now we find out that the French vote against freedom was because France was being bribed by Saddam.»

Lol, where was your freedom at the UN? there were only WMD "proofs" and your government lies,
The only thing that have been relegated to irrelevance is your own country, or at least gov, under the eyes of the whole world.

Saying 'no' to your lies gave us fascistics & racists campaigns against french people: what great democrats you are...

Freedom? your country have put half dictators in place worldwide, as saddam in 1963;
North Korea 800.000 people in goulag? Bush prefer to talk...
Don't speak me of freedom, that was not at all their purpose at the UN... (even if your news propaganda wants to rewrite History).

bribed by Saddam? lol give me a -real- proof and not your rumors propagated by, once again liars, republicans...

Best regards,
sensi

@ gunnar

«General Patton said it best when he concluded that “I would rather have a German division in front of me, than a French one behind me.”»

You like quotes? (btw Patton was a prick)

Winston Churchill said it best when it concluded that «Americans always try to do the right thing -- after they've tried everything else.»

;)

more of this?

«America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between.» Oscar Wilde.

end of topic. ;)

What is the big deal, Bush will go to heaven one blessed day anyway.

What is the big deal, Bush will go to heaven one blessed day anyway.

@Sensi, Gunnar.

War quotes hey? Well here's an interesting one from amongst the diggers of WW2.

"When we fired, the Germans ducked. When the Germans fired, we ducked. When the Americans fired, everybody ducked! ..."

No don't kill Bush! Then we'll actually have to deal with who is really the President, Dick Cheney!

Hello,

the norwegian rap group should have their behonkers rapped with a cane...spewing such violent lyrics in view of the serious world situation of islamist violence against members of the free world and democracy is somewhat of poor taste if not down right stooopid. Where did this spoilt brats and euro-punks think they will be if not for freedom's forces fighting to protect them... wake up gonzos...don't be too left leaning..read up on the atrocities committed by islamists throughout history, then maybe you will sing a different tune..haaaaaah i dare you.

princess Minnehaha -- mad as hell
Minnehaha아주 성나 공주

Congratulations for that kind of SOOO needed sites!! Everybody should read independent writters. Througt the readings of NOAM CHOMSKY it´svery clear to understand why there is so many persons against the internal and external USA politic and why George W. BUSH (and his friends, by the way) is so hated and SHOULD BE EXECUTED in the name of decense and freedom. Every bomb dropped, every slave (chid or not) in factories around the world is still our fault. Unite and fight against the machine!! Boycott the empires (if it´s still possible)
IF U FIGHT YOU CAN LOOSE, IF YOU DON´T FIGHT YOU´RE LOST!!

President bush is a great president. You norwiegans think hes bad but you're a bunch of idiots. Would you let terrorist attacks happen in your home counry and not do anything about it. If a plane came into norway and blew up your buildings you would come crying to the u.s. Its countrys like you that try to start fights but cant defend yourself.

i am very interested in their offer! i enjoy killing people..:D:D:Dwith my sniper i am gonna kill georg bush!

hHAHAHAHH!! BUT I WANT MORE MONEY FOR THE JOB! MAYBE 100 000 KRONER

Bush really is NOT popular here, and a very significant number of us (Americans) do NOT believe that he was legitimately elected. Our Congress and presidency are currently dominated by some very frightening people, and just under half of us seem to care enough to do something about it. He was barely elected- don't forget that.

The facts about 9/11 are well-documented by now, and the whole issue is very, VERY shady. In 2006 if we can remove the republican majority in the senate we can maybe stifle Bush that way, and in 2008 hopefully the country will be so sick of his cronies that they put in some people who are at least TOLERABLY evil.

rawilson.com; thought of the month...

"make assasinations not war"

USA's election system is hazardious to your health, whether you live in the US or not. Let me tell you all something about Gatas Parlament. They aren't terrorists, they're completely harmless street rappers.
If someone really shot Bush, it would defenetly not be because of a website named killhim.nu, but because he, and his administration, has ruined, and taken, thousands of lives. Not quite as much as Hitler (The Nazi fellow you saved us all from yay!), but still quite a number.
I read an american newspaper and it said something like "American peace troops fixed everything for Iraq" and an Iraqi paper saying that american terrorists occupied the streets killing lots of people. Do you see my point here? People, both norwegians and americans, use more energy trying to tell their opponents they're idiots for thinking what they do, which is sometimes the case, than showing them why they think differently of things. Lots of people, and by "lots" i mean LOTS! hate Bush and America itself, more than Gatas Parlament, and they have a right to, more so than Gatas Parlament.
Make porn, not war.

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