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From the archives: Remember, remember 11 September; Murderous monsters in flight; Reject their dark game; And let Liberty's flame; Burn prouder and ever more bright - Geoffrey Barto "Bjørn Stærks hyklerske dobbeltmoral er til å spy av. Under det syltynne fernisset av redelighet sitter han klar med en vulkan av diagnoser han kan klistre på annerledes tenkende mennesker når han etter beste evne har spilt sine kort. Jeg tror han har forregnet seg. Det blir ikke noe hyggelig under sharia selv om han har slikket de nye herskernes støvlesnuter."
2005: 12 | 11 | 10 | 09 | 08 | 07 | 06 | 05 | 04 | 03 | 02 | 01
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Open Thread: Islam (2)
For comments, discussions and news about Islam that are off-topic elsewhere. My first open thread on Islam grew pretty long, so I've retired it.
Herbie, NY NY | 2005-03-12 17:39 |
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Surely if something is worth saying, it is worth saying twice. :-) Norwegian kafir | 2005-03-13 02:08 | Link Top ten reasons why Islam is not the religion of peace To complete the military picture of Muhammad’s life from 622 to 632, Watt sums up the number of expeditions that Muhammad either sent out or went out on: seventy-four (Muhammad at Medina, pp. 2; 339-43). They range from negotiations (only a few compared to the violent expeditions), to small assassination hit squads, to the conquest of Mecca with 10,000 jihadists, and to the confrontation of Byzantine Christians (who never showed up), with 30,000 holy warriors to Tabuk (see below). Thus, aggressive military violence sits at the heart of early Islam—in Muhammad’s life and in the Quran. Islam is therefore not the religion of peace. Bjørn Stærk | 2005-03-13 07:17 | Link Norwegian Kafir: Thus, aggressive military violence sits at the heart of early Islam—in Muhammad’s life and in the Quran. Islam is therefore not the religion of peace. Does not follow, of course. All you've proven is that Islam in the 7th century was not a religion of peace. Islam is what Islam does .. now. Anything else becomes ridiculous. The Swedish are violent imperialists! The Germans are Nazis! Catholics are crusaders! Obviously, there is a strong connection between Islam of today and Islam of the past, but the strength of that connection can not be assumed. Kim Sook-Im,US | 2005-03-13 08:43 | Link Bjoern: "Does not follow, of course. All you've proven is that Islam in the 7th century was not a religion of peace. Islam is what Islam does ....." By the above i assume that you are wanting to imply conversely that Islam is somehow a religion of peace? or at the very least it is somehow not to be implicated in the current rather numerous and rather ubiquitous conflicts world-wide??? I would like to believe that you are knowledgeable about the tenets of islam. From your response to Norwegian Kafir I am tempted to surmise the following : l) you are inadequately informed about the tenets of Islam or 2) you are perversely naive of the tenets and agendae of Islam, or 3) you are in denial or 4)you are a very obstinate man who would defend his view-point to his last breath ,however flawed it may be or 5) You just love a good arguement, especially one which will invoke the ire of your opponent or 6) a permutation and combination of any of the preceding suppositions !!! May Allah grant you wisdom...Ma'sha'llah! :)
Bjørn Stærk | 2005-03-13 09:07 | Link Kim Sook-Im: By the above i assume that you are wanting to imply conversely that Islam is somehow a religion of peace? Not at all. I'm just pointing out a hole in Norwegian Kafir's logic. That hole exists even if Islam today really is all that bad. And calling Islam a religion of peace is just as bad as calling it a religion of war. We don't live in a cartoon universe where a religion has one dominant characteristic that defines it and all its followers. Kim Sook-Im,US | 2005-03-13 16:50 | Link here is an interesting link to the concept of compassion in islam: http://www.bodhicitta.net/compassion.htm ( click on Islam and compassion 1 and 2 ) Ex-Christian you still there. Check out this link for your bed-time reading and get back to me. Sister Ayesha Nyanaponika Kim Ali Dashti | 2005-03-14 04:24 | Link Some interesting alliances forming. White Supremacist Group Offers Friendship & Support To Terror Groups: http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/JeremyReynalds50312.htm Kim Sook-Im,US | 2005-03-16 12:52 | Link
""I am of the White Aryan Race. I concur that Aryan Nations is only Aryans of Anglo-Saxon, Germanic, Nordic, Basque, Lombard, Celtic and Slavic origin, the White non-Jew race worldwide. I agree with Aryan Nations' Biblical exclusion of Jews, Negroes, Mexicans, Orientals, and Mongrels" ...it would seem that the aryan nation folks are not very well informed regarding race and nationlity. Strange that iranians are excluded from their club ..when in actuality the word 'arya' derives from 'iran' ... and the 'basques'- --- ha ha..we don't really know how the basques fit in( some think they are descendents of atlanteans LOL ). Mexicans = race ??? ha ha...gosh this folks don't know much anthropology , but then who says hate-mongers are learned folks? LOL. I happen to know a mexican friend who is of polish ancestry, i guess he won't qualify for admission since he speaks spanish and heavily accented english LOL. I wonder if the luxembourghians will qualify, there has lately been variant theories suggesting that inhabitants around the moselle river/currently grand duchy of luxembourg may have some abkhazian connection and further back probably to mongols of the steppes and are thus non germanic people. Shades of Goetterdaemmerung --no wonder these folks are friendly towards the jihadists and sundry islamoid extremists they are of the same ilk ,mentality and I.Q. .....theirs is a world of ignorance, irrationality, paranoia and raw violence. Brunhildar von Arya Martin, Virginia | 2005-03-19 00:10 | Link I am no expert on Islam, and have nothing to say on whether it is a religion of peace or not: but violent practices are carried out in the name of Islamic law. Check out one horrendous example in "Unwed, Pregnant, and Facing 150 Lashes" at my blog, http://www.vulgarmorality.com. I only wish more publicity could be aimed at cases like these... Kim Sook-Im,US | 2005-03-19 13:44 | Link " Women leads muslim prayer call in US of A .....sends shock waves through the whole of Islamdom etc etc... ----> http://www.nydailynews.com/news/local/story/291431p-249497c.html ( Amina Wudud - professor of islamic studies and trail blaizer extraordinaire broke 1000yr old tradition of islamic misogyny by leading a muslim prayer ...whooooopeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!) O.K. catholic sisters where are y'all . About time you girls up one on Amina Wudud and start giving comunion and what not at your local diocese ....pooooh on the pope - that old dawdling fool masquerading as shephard. Amazing - that Godhead of the abrahamic tribes , supposed creator of heaven and earth ,of the known and unknown universes--- so geocentric and worse ,so gender- challenged .....hmmmmmm 1000 yr tradition, my foot....what is a 1000 yr compared to a gajillion billion zillion years- As we in the Tao would say : " GIRLS THE NIGHT IS STILL YANG - YING IT !!!" Sister Ayesha Nyanaponika Kim Kim Sook-Im,US | 2005-03-19 13:55 | Link ".....Those who wish to promote freedom in that part of the world must take on the peaceful, distinctive emirate of Ras Al Khaima, and stop this vile thing from happening." the above from the link supplied by MARTIN/VIRGINIA Martin....when good men and women of the free world do not speak out forcefully and condemn such barbaric practises against womenkind they stand guilty of complicity in the perpetuation of misogyny. Sister Ayesha Nyanaponika Kim Kim Sook-Im, US | 2005-03-19 14:17 | Link howdy Bjoern, there was a teeny winsy little word in your rebuttal to my earlier post which troubled me a wee bit and requires your re-rebuttal: you wrote: "Bjørn Stærk | 2005-03-13 09:07 | Link Not at all. I'm just pointing out a hole in Norwegian Kafir's logic. That hole exists even if Islam today really is all that bad. " ...O.k. .....'EVEN IF ISLAM TODAY REALLY IS ALL THAT BAD" HMMMMMMMMM.......yes Islam today really is all that bad - and that is the premise i posit. The semantic construct of your little sentence there betrays your underlying thoughts ...that is in your ho-hum universe of relativism and muticulturalism ( yes i accuse you of being -at the very least -an unconscious multiculturalist) Islam is just another world religion --- just another world ......is it really all that bad??? , naaaah, it could'nt be.....it's just another world-view !!! Care to elaborate further your interesting little remark "........even if Islam today is really all that bad?" ...and further elaborate for me s'il -vous -plaites- why Islam today isn't really all that bad ???? and further more .... .......what is sooo gooood about Islam today -list me 10 things that will excite me to view Islam favorably !!! Just 10 measly little things ( l0 little injuns and then there were none ha )ha
Kim Sook-Im,US | 2005-03-23 12:28 | Link here is Muqtedar Khans' site: http://www.ijtihad.org/ ( alternate view of islam) I wonder if Oeyvind or Ex-Christian would care to comment either way? Kim Sook-Im Øyvind, Leuven | 2005-03-23 13:39 | Link Sure. I have interviewed Muqtedar Khan and he has numerous interesting opinions, amongst other things on upcoming democracies in the Muslim world. I will post excerpts of the interview on my blog (malines.blogspot.com) sooner or later. Øyvind Øyvind, Leuven | 2005-03-23 13:54 | Link I will add that the demand for ijtihad (roughly translated: rational interpretation) is a demand shared by many Islamists, Muslim feminists, rationalists, etc, etc. The gates of interpretation is being opened again. There is a Reformation going on. Geronimo, USA | 2005-03-23 18:58 | Link It’s been a while since Bjorn posted my comments that inspried him to establish “Open Thread: Islam (1). I’ve sat back and read, but generally bit my tongue at some of the mindless comments of the Islamic apologists. Which brings me to the comments on Kim Sook-Im, 2005-03-16 12:52 post regarding the following quote she found in a link supplied by Ali Dashti which reads as follows: "I am of the White Aryan Race. I concur that Aryan Nations is only Aryans of Anglo-Saxon, Germanic, Nordic, Basque, Lombard, Celtic and Slavic origin, the White non-Jew race worldwide. I agree with Aryan Nations' Biblical exclusion of Jews, Negroes, Mexicans, Orientals, and Mongrels". Brain washing is an appropriate term used to describe a process of indoctrination into a belief propagated by snippets of truth. Partial truths don’t wash. Consider being diagnosed with just a little cancer or being partially pregnant. Those who subscribe, sympathize, or otherwise embrace the concept of “white supremacy” have yet to understand that the principles and teachings of our Lord Jesus are that of obedience indicating just the opposite, or “white servitude”. I resent all and any reference the Aryan Nation makes to their interpretation of Holy Writ. Their doctrine of lies is totally unsupportable. The enemy (Satan) is content and pleased, to spread these lies and instigates among the followers of the Aryan Nation the lie of “white supremacy”. Christ said, “I came to serve”. By His example, Christians of all colors and nationalities are to serve (servant) our fellow man His ambassadors. Does any of that sound vaguely familiar? Here is a statement you can take to the bank. “Not all Jews (a religion) are Hebrew, and not all Hebrew are Jews”. The irony in the mindless statements made by members of the Aryan Nation is their membership is made up of a large percentage of Hebrew men. When you consider the enemy is always most effective when he can work (spy or infiltrate) within an organization you have evidence of a great conspiracy (lie). All this is true for the various Islamic religions that proliferate the world. Just for the record, I’m Caucasian, also Hebrew and probably from the tribe of Benjamin. Some of my decedents settled in Drammen, Norway. In that region alone we are like the “Sand(s) of the Sea” (Gen 32:12. My decedents have never embraced Judaism, although I’m sure their traditions are rich in the worship of the Norsemen’s gods during the Dark Ages. Ponder a bit, my intellectual friends, before posting a hasty response based on your perception of partial truth. I could easily pass as a member of the Aryan Nation but for the fact my “heart” (vs. genitals) have been circumcised. Geronimo, USA | 2005-03-23 22:04 | Link It’s been a while since Bjorn posted my comments that inspired him to establish a separate “Open Thread: Islam (1). Since then I’ve sat back and read, but generally bit my tongue at some of the tedious comments of the Islamic apologists. That is, until I read the comments on Kim Sook-Im, 2005-03-16 12:52 post regarding the following quote she found in a link supplied by Ali Dashti which read as follows: "I am of the White Aryan Race. I concur that Aryan Nations is only Aryans of Anglo-Saxon, Germanic, Nordic, Basque, Lombard, Celtic and Slavic origin, the White non-Jew race worldwide. I agree with Aryan Nations' Biblical exclusion of Jews, Negroes, Mexicans, Orientals, and Mongrels". Brain washing is an appropriate term used to describe a process of indoctrination into a belief propagated by snippets of truth. Partial truths don’t wash and create confusion, ultimately becoming an untruth, or occasionally clarification for greater truth. Those who subscribe, sympathize, or embrace the concept of “white supremacy” have yet to understand that the principle teachings of Christ; that of obedience indicating just the opposite, or “white servitude”. I resent all, and any reference the Aryan Nation makes to their interpretation of Holy Writ. Their doctrine of lies is totally unsupportable. The enemy (Satan) is content and pleased, to spread these lies that instigates among the followers of the Aryan Nation their philosophy of “white supremacy”. Christ said, “I came to serve”. By His example, Christians of all colors and nations are called to serve, or be a servant to our fellow man as His ambassadors. Does any of that sound vaguely familiar? Here is a statement you can take to the bank; “Not all Jews (a religion) are Hebrew, and not all Hebrew are Jews”. The irony in the mindless statements of the Aryan Nation is their membership is made up of a large percentage of Hebrew men. When you consider the enemy is always most effective when he can work (spy or infiltrate) within an organization you have proof of a great conspiracy (lie). All this is also true for the various Islamic religions that proliferate the world. Many Arabs are in fact Hebrew, or dependents of Eber (Heber), as was Abraham, who was NOT a Jew. Just for the record, I’m Caucasian, also Hebrew and probably from the tribe of Benjamin. Many of my descendents settled in Drammen, Norway over a period of centuries. In that region alone we are like the “Sand(s) of the Sea” (Gen 32:12), as is much of Norway. To my knowledge, no one in my family tree has ever embraced Judaism, although I’m sure their traditions are rich in the worship of the Norsemen’s heathen gods during the Dark Ages. Although by birth I’m an Israelite, the Apostle Paul referred to me as the gentile, or more correctly the Hebrew word 'goi' , or the Greek translation 'ethnos’, both meaning nation. Therefore gentile does not mean “Non-Jew”, but people from other nations. By the way, if you were born in Judea, descended from the tribe of Judah, or embraced Judaism you “might” qualify you to be referred to as a Jew. There is no such thing as a GENTILE; it is always plural. Ponder a bit, my intellectual friends, before posting a hasty response based on your perception of partial truth. I could easily pass as a member of the Aryan Nation but for the fact my “heart” (vs. genitalia) has been circumcised. Ask yourself; how many male members of your family been physically circumcised, and where did that tradition come from? Norwegian kafir | 2005-03-24 00:29 | Link "There is a Reformation going on". Øyvind: How do you define a Reformation? How can you say that there is a Reformation of Islam going on? Øyvind, Leuven | 2005-03-24 08:01 | Link kafir: To me a Reformation is a major, religious shift. In the process there are large amounts of inner strife and many radical groups with new or renewed interpretations of the religion will surface. This is precisely what has been going on in Islam since the days of Islamic modernism (al-Afghani), and it is precisely what is still going on today. Know the Muslim woman you recently pointed to as someone who is trying to reform Islam at your website? She is part of it. So is Muqtedar Khan. So is Khalid Abou El Fadl. And so is Ayman al-Zawahiri, Abdallah Azzam, Qutb, Farag, etc. As soon as I have time I will post my thoughts on this on my blog. Øyvind Thomas Bolding Hansen - Denmark | 2005-03-25 01:45 | Link Here is a very interesting article on madrases in Pakistan: http://www.newstatesman.com/200503280010 The article seems to be only working once, that means if you leave it just by going "back" in explorer the article will pop up again, it will be cut and payment needed for full article. A quote; "In Islamabad, I went to see Pervez Hoodbhoy, an expert on education and the author of an important study of the madrasas. Hoodbhoy teaches at Quaid-e-Azam University, the Pakistani Oxbridge, and as we sat in the spacious campus, he described the depressing changes he had witnessed since joining the staff in the 1970s. Not only had there been a general decline in educational standards, he said, but beards, burkas and hijabs, unknown in the early 1980s, were now the norm. He estimated that only one-third of his students now resist showing some visible sign of their Islamic propriety. "And this," he added, "is by far the most liberal university in Pakistan. "There is definitely a change in the temper of this society," he said. "The students are much less interested in the world and show much less curiosity - instead we have this mad, unthinking rush towards religiosity, and the steady erosion of the liberal elite." I asked Hoodbhoy about his prognosis for the future. "I am very anxious," he said. "The state educational system has reached the point of collapse. The only long-term solution has to be improved secular government schools: at the moment they are so bad that even where they exist, no one will willingly go to them. "But the biggest problem we have," he continued, "is the US. Their actions in Iraq and Afghanistan have hugely strengthened the hands of the extremists and depleted the strength of those who want to see a modern, non-fundamentalist future for this country. Before the invasion of Iraq, I called the US ambassador and warned her: if you attack Saddam, you may gain Iraq, but you'll lose Pakistan. I hope I was wrong - but I fear that I may yet be proved right."
http://www.pakistan-facts.com/article.php?story=20041206212928125 Kim Sook-Im, US | 2005-03-25 09:44 | Link here is an interesting article on ISLAM VS THE WORLD CLICK HERE : http://www.tysknews.com/Depts/terrorism/islam_vs_the_world.htm happy reading Sister Ayesha Nyanaponika Kim Thomas Bolding Hansen - Denmark | 2005-03-25 20:10 | Link Here is another article from William Darymple about another clash of civilizations, beteween the sufis and the salafis. http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1339593,00.html As there is importance in understanding that Islam is a lot of things as Øyvind says, it´s undergoing changes after years of stalemate. Both in terms of of people trying to take it into modern age and people trying to take it back to the old world. Bin Laden is probably in Pakistan, But he could be in chechnya or Kashmir. I think the reason he is in Pakistan is because this country is essential for his dream of a new khalifat. The combination of the military / Nuclear power of Pakistan, and the economic power of SA would provide the true "Base". The controversy runs between moslems runs between those of more liberal views and of the sufi brand more than it runs between Shia and Sunni. Actually the ideas of Ayatollah Khomenei is widely appreciated, and what he stood for been a major inspiration even to a wahhabist as Bin Laden as well as many others. Before Bin Laden entered the stage, the most popular moslem in the entire sunni/shia world was probably Ayatollah Khomenei. So the conflict stretches a long way back, As long as the pan nationalism which haunted Europe for decades. And of course unltimately to the roots of Islam, because Islam started as a religion of conquest, a universalist faith to spread itself by any means, even warfare, to the rest of the world until it converts or subdues. Thus comes the importance of us boosting and adapting our military capabilities into waging war if we have to, and to have the ability to defend ourselves against ballistic missiles if need be, to rule atleast the skies all over the world. And to make sure we get less independant on oil. I other words USA got the long tail here, Europe might go as far as to consider renewable fuels - but it´s not as much due to the political and supply situation in the world as it´s due to concerns about the longterm effects of global warming. As for the battling the jihadi international, thing really don´t look that good. neither democracy or economic affluency is a guarantee that the firebrand wahhabism will not prevail. Islamic fundamentalist may win the vote and the majority of terrorists are from the middleclass, well educated families often well familiar with modernity. And just as Lenin saw his enlighted Cadres of Bolsheviks as essential in planning, and leading a revolution on behalf of the prolatariat, so does these people see themselves as the spearhead that will unite the sunna and reestablish the khalifat as the "true" manifestation of islam. Eventually this will have to be countered and defeated one way or other. Thomas Bolding Hansen - Denmark | 2005-03-25 21:17 | Link Interesting statement here from moslems opposed to terror, very clear in condemning: Some quotes: "e) we conclude that such blasphemy and crimes against humanity-- by Al Qaeda, ALL suicide bombers and other terrorists no matter what their cause may be is an unholy war by evildoers and criminals who are placing young Muslims, and themselves, in mortal danger of eternal damnation and world-wide condemnation; f) we conclude that the death, destruction and mayhem perpetrated by Al Qaeda, other terrorists and ALL suicide bombers have not been approved by the merciful, compassionate and just God of us all but, rather, by a hate-filled and violent group of criminal fascist cults which are plainly shaitaniyah (satanic) in nature;". If any of us were to use that language we would probably be called islamophobic :) From Jihadwatch : http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/005492.php Kim Sook-Im, US | 2005-03-26 14:55 | Link here is a typical dialogue among muslims in the ummah regarding 'moderate muslims' and the ideas of muqtedar khan: http://ummah.net/forum/showthread.php?t=9267
Ayesha Nyanaponika Kim Kim Sook-Im, US | 2005-03-26 16:00 | Link more on muqtedar khan -- moderate muslim ( not !)
Kim Jong-Il - benign leader of Kim Il-Soong - compassionate Saint Idi Amin - Butcher of A liberal undogmatic Pope ( ha
and now MODERATE MUSLIM ( HAAAAAA.. Sooooo Muqtedar Khan hmmmmm supposed reformist? perhaps in the genre of Tariq Ramadhan??? LOL moderate muslim ? Well read on:
Sister Ayesha Nyanaponika Kim Kim Sook-Im, US | 2005-03-27 12:33 | Link Dear Blogistanis, Please help save Kobra Rahmanpour click here to read more: http://www.faithfreedom.org/Announcement/503232216.htm Ms. Rahmanpour is a 22 yr old woman currently under threat of being hanged by the dastardly islamic regime of Iran. Sister Ayesha Nyanaponika Kim Øyvind, Malines | 2005-03-29 08:04 | Link Sure, I can comment. I prefer to read and listen to what people say themselves instead of reading what others say about them. If I compare the writings of say Muqtedar Khan and Kim Sook-Im I sure know who comes off as an extremist and who does not. Secondly, "guilt by association" is rarely a good idea and the article you point to seem to talk more about other people than Khan. When I spoke to Khan myself he expressed hope for the future because of some Muslim countries turn towards democracy, and because of some Islamists are turning in the same direction. He expressed worry, though, about the Islamist "obsession with sharia". To group that guy together with Wahhabis because he visited a conference on terrorism in Saudi-Arabia and because he works in the Centre for the study of Islam and Democracy (together with, might I add, several non-Muslims, like Irvin Borowsky) is - how should I put this - silly. Øyvind Kim Sook-Im, US | 2005-03-29 16:46 | Link hmmm and double hmmmmm. Sister Ayesha Nyanaponika Kim Thomas Bolding Hansen - Denmark | 2005-03-31 23:35 | Link The MYTH of islamophobia. It´s been common for a long time to talk about rising rascism, intolerance, and now islamophobia directed towards Moslem minorities of immigrants in Europe. Phobia in my English dictionary is expressed as: "exaggerated and illogical fear of something". Phobia in terms of arachnophobia, Claustrophobia smells of it as well. After all by any means a spider, atleast in this part of the world, pose no real threat to any one compared eg. to a car. But are we suffering from islamophobia, just in the sense of irrational fear, or could there be reasons why more and more, enter the alerted state? Like I said before it´s not only common to talk about islamophobia. Before someone even coined that term a more frequent accusation/association was that of rascism and it was compared with the antisemitism of the nazis, and by any means it still is. If we were that immune to fanaticism back then, are there any reason to assume that this day where the Scandinavian countries top the world chart in general tolerance, that we are more likely to adopt fanatic ideas, and hateful mindsets ? But yet, so called intolerance towards a certain group called moslems is on the rise these day as tolerance towards many other cultures, gays etc. are on the rise. And that is what some like to call islamophobia, irrational fear of moslems. Another look back in history shows us how through the 70´s people like Arafat was cheered, though the 80´s Ayatollah Khomenei was shown spewing hatred in speech after speech, American flags or Israeli ones was shown again and again in the media being burned in Iran or in Palestine. But western world in general just looked and shrugged, "Hey that´s their waste of lives". If people here were apt to answer hate with hate, now they could have started long ago! Today some few beyond doubt do answer hate with hate. But we are neither talking about islamophobia or anything irrational, quite on the contrary. I will now quote this article which I recommend for reading, all of it: http://www.meaningfulliving.com/editorial-why_they_hate_us.htm "Bill Gates drops out from College to form his own multi billion dollar software company. Babe Ruth held the home run baseball title for over fifty years. Michael Jordan refined the sport of basketball and became the game’s greatest player in the history of that sport. Idi Amin is despised in the rest of the world for his sledgehammer tactics and admired in the Islamic world, for standing up to Israel during the Entebbe airfield Palestinian fiasco. Adolph Hitler’s name is synonymous with evil and is idolized here for gassing six million Jews. Osama Bin Ladin restored face to the Arab world by destroying the World Trade Center. Saddam Hussein stood up to the imperialist West and became the only Arab leader in modern history to attack Israel and get away with it. See a significant pattern here? If individual success didn’t matter in our culture Bill Gates probably would have ended up a librarian with his outstanding organizational skills. If Professional sports didn’t mean much in the States then it would have been foolish for Nike to sign on Michael Jordan as a promoter of tennis shoes, and Babe Ruth would have never become famous. Idi Amin would have been executed in his own country for the many thousands of murders carried out by his hand picked military, and Osama Bin Ladin would have stayed in construction." "Adolph Hitler is remembered in the West for bringing WW II to the world through his ambitious hope of the thousand year Reich, and fifty million are dead as a result. For this he has brought great shame to the Germanic world. Mein Kampf is a best seller here in the gulf. It is really one of the few books that non westerners buy here, and the reason is that Hitler’s fascist government very nearly accomplished with the holocaust what the Arabs would do if they, but had the power to do so. He has been elevated to Hero status! Idi Amin and Osama Bin Ladin are also honored here among the leaders of the Gulf! It doesn’t really take training in Anthropology to see the obvious! Islam upholds what these killers have in common and is a religion of war rather than peace." Good point! what we choose as icons, to revere, to respect, is saying the bunch about our mentality. So when people like OBL, Ayatollah Khomenei, Idi Amin, even Saddam Hussein and Hitler is widely and often majorly! cherished as icons in the Arab world, it speaks volumes about what we can expect if they ever get anywhere near physical ability to harm us and Israel. So maybe this "Islamophobia" is not so irrational after all, certainly not when you behold all factors at play, from the local problems with moslem immigrants, to the global problems of global jihad. "Calm down" many will probably be likely to say, the Arab world all together spite it´s oil wealth has a GNP less than Spain. The entire Arab world of 250+ people produces less goods for export than the Finland with it´s 5-6 million people. The Arab world stands divided, by any means how could they pose a serious threat to us ? I don´t disagree as to the analysis of the current situation. I would even agree that even massive terror attacks ( we are and will be foiling most of them ) can only do limited damage to us on a physical level. But you gotta think 20-30 years ahead as well, and then we might have a very different situation than to day. As some in the Arab world notice, with not so well hidden pleasure, China with 1 billion + people will in about 35 years surpass the GNP output of the United states and thus become the world´s biggest economy. Before the GNP of China surpass that of the States, their spending on military will have surpassed that of the USA since they spend probably even a good deal over 8 % of their GNP on the military and then is a lot of research and development not even counted. It becomes then more likely that China will challenge USA and Japan in pacific and invade Taiwan which could easily lead to US intervention. Now we have the attacker, but who will be the target ? Besides Israel which will the first and prime target, the next in line will be Europe just as due to the Von Schlieffen plan in ww1, Germany had to squash France fast in order to take up the more geographic distant Russia with success, the Arab world will have to swarm Europe in order to clear the way for combatting the hard part, the USA far away across the atlantic. A lot of things can happen in the future, fortunately events can take a better turn, we don´t know much about the future in the end, sometimes that works out ok, but at other times it doesn´t. Most of the pieces in the scenario I depict above is already in place, the rest will follow over the next decades. China could drop it´s ambitions about Taiwan. Islam could be majorly reformed. NK could cease to be the brainwashed communist state it is today. But we should not count on it, and certainly not if we allow our economies and military forces to grow weak or our scientific lead to become less. Islamophobia is in the end not so irrational as one might think, on the contrary to fail to behold the factual world we live in as it is; substitutes the irrational part.
Herbie, NY NY | 2005-04-01 16:11 | Link A great article by Johannes Janssen on Dhimmitude in Holland at
The demand for respect sounds inherently reasonable, but the consequences of such respect — when it is forced — are like an ever-expanding oil spill. When non-Muslims such as bishops, mayors, cabinet ministers, and members of the royal family time and again pronounce their respect for Islam, Muslim doubters (of which there are tens of thousands, of course) can be forgiven for thinking that if such august persons voluntarily and contrary to their own interests show respect over and over, Islam must be something special indeed; and that he or she would do wise to abandon thoughts of leaving Islam behind, resolving instead to strictly adhere to such an exceptional faith. In many countries, respect for Islam has led to peculiar measures. The sale of wine in an ordinary supermarket can no longer be permitted, because Islam forbids the consumption of wine. And can we really tolerate advertising for . . . other interest-based loans when Islam forbids charging interest? Eating in public during the month of Ramadan? May restaurants even stay open then? Can one pour beer in an open-air café if the place is situated on the same square as a mosque? Might it be a sign of disrespect for Islam to have a Muslim suspect appear before a non-Muslim judge? Or to have a female bureaucrat or politician make far-reaching decisions involving Muslims? Ali Dashti | 2005-04-01 19:03 | Link Thomas Hansen: Great essay! Thomas Bolding Hansen - Denmark | 2005-04-02 01:19 | Link Thanks a lot Ali:) I hope my prediction will prove wrong and that we can go on lullabying with no consequence, but I am afraid somewhere that is not the case. I just stumbled over an old article in 4 pieces in Asia Times: http://www.atimes.com/atimes/others/islamism-fascism-terrorism.html A good analysis starting with the advent of the moslem brotherhood, connections with nazismm, to the days of the modern global jihadists.
Norwegian kafir | 2005-04-03 00:59 | Link Hansen: I think your scenario is a little bit on the pessimistic side. But I agree with you that even if we should get an Islamic Reformation, it will in all likelihood be a very violent one. And given the large number of Muslims now in Europe, this violence could include our major cities. Susan | 2005-04-04 21:13 | Link Important to note about Muqtedar Khan: he is a protege of Saudi shill and uber-Islamic-apologist John Esposito. As such, I tend to dismiss anything he writes or says. He appears to be another slick Islamist in the mode of Tariq Ramadan (another one of Oyvind's favorites). Sandy P | 2005-04-05 06:59 | Link Know thy enemy: http://tigerhawk.blogspot.com/2005/03/al-qaedas-grand-strategy.html
Al Qaeda is a loose-knit organization that ties together a lot of different radical Islamic groups from other parts of the globe -- essentially a lot of little local affiliates tied together by a common world view. It is unlikely that from his cave in Afghanistan Osama bin Laden is capable of planning all of the moves in this war with the United States.... Herbie, NY NY | 2005-04-06 18:07 | Link I know this will probably come as a great shock to many of you, but the latest Arab Human Development Report from the UN blames the Arab world's degraded state and lack of democratic reform on -- are you ready -- the US and Israel. According to the report there has been a lack of democratic reform because of the US invasion of Iraq and the Israel's lack of relationship with and suppression of the PLO. So if I get this correctly, if the US gets out of Iraq and Israel accedes to the demands of the PLO then, of course, democracy will spring up in all of the Middle East countries. My own view is that the authors have been spending too much time alone with their camels Thomas Bolding Hansen - Denmark | 2005-04-07 07:51 | Link Palestine receive more foreign aid per capita than do any other country in the world, and remain among the poorest in the world. The world is full of states of every size that managed to do better than that. Kim Sook-Im, US | 2005-04-07 10:33 | Link Herbie and Thomas Hansen, Very interesting posts....I wonder if ex-christian or Oeyvind would care to comment on or apologize away your posts/arab human devlpmnt rport/palestine? Sister Ayesha Nyanaponika Kim Thomas Bolding Hansen | 2005-04-07 11:17 | Link Check out the newest Ali Sina Article: "We don’t know our enemy; we are not even willing to listen. We are too good, too trusting, too gullible. We cover our ears and sing lala lala as soon as we are told the truth. This truth is not politically correct. Lies are more pleasing to our ears. We come to the defense of our enemy. We give him especial status and demand reverence and respect for him." "The enemy is Islam. It is not people, it is an ideology. It is this plague that we have to fight and eradicate, not its potential victims. Many people are infected by HIV but only a few get AIDS. Many people are Muslims, but only a few become terrorists. But all those who are infected by Islam are in danger of becoming terrorists. All it takes, is to be hit by a crisis and seek their religion for solace. Once we recognize the enemy, defeating it would be easy. A few of us are fighting this disease. If we all joined hands – all the governments and all the people of all religions – we would be able to eradicate this plague in one generation. Yes, in one generation. No bloodshed is needed. This is a promise, not a prophecy. Why it is not a prophecy? Because it won't happen unless we make it happen. Why it is a promise? Because if we do our due diligence it will happen. We will succeed. We must fight and eradicate this disease before it bring us the biggest disaster mankind has ever faced.... Anyone home? Ignorance is lethal. Truth is the antidote." http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/sina50407.htm This would probably never get a UN stamp and thus we keep on keeping ourselves from understanding what we are dealing with.
Herbie, NY NY | 2005-04-07 21:32 | Link From http://www.zachtei.nl/2005/04/06/000688.html The Dutch always make you feel protected: "After a faked hostage situation in the Heineken Music Hall had resulted in the escape of the 'hostage takers', police wanted to go home because they were cold and hungry, rather than pursue the 'terrorists'. Subsequently, the actors that played the hostage takers were told to go home as well." Ex-Christian, now Muslim | 2005-04-08 11:05 | Link Islam gains toehold in Mexico's Zapatista country SAN CRISTOBAL DE LAS CASAS, Mexico, – Islam has joined a battle for the hearts and minds of Mexico's volatile Tzotzil Indians in Chiapas state, home of Zapatista rebels and a hotbed of sectarian strife between Christians. In an unlikely meeting of two worlds, an idealistic Muslim sect has converted some 300 Tzotzils, a Maya Indian group known for drink-fueled fiestas and religious fervor. http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/mexico/20050125-0500-religion-mexico-muslims.html Ex-Christian, now Muslim | 2005-04-08 11:10 | Link Leap of faith from Christianity to Islam. A priest called Muhammad Editor's Note: Published on page A1 of the Mar. 23, 2005 issue of the Philippine Daily Inquirer HE USED to be known as Father Stan among his flock in parishes around Metro Manila. These days, he goes by the name Muhammad, after the great prophet of the faith he now calls his own. Three years ago, Estanislao Soria, a priest in the Archdiocese of Manila, made that great leap of faith from Christianity to Islam. He became Muhammad Soria, much to the consternation of his devout Catholic family. http://news.inq7.net/nation/index.php?index=1&story_id=31433 Kim Sook-Im, US | 2005-04-08 13:56 | Link Howdy doo ex-christian, Salaams, salaams...Oh don't let those fickle catholic priests excite you too much. Switching from catholicism to islam ain't no leap of faith - it's more like jumping from the frying pan into the fire ! Here is something else that should make you excited - millions leaving Islam !!! read: http://www.humanists.net/alisina/islam_vs_muslims.htm http://www.faithfreedom.org/testimonials.htm http://www.derafsh-kaviyani.com/english/quran.html http://goldwater.mideastreality.com/2005/mar/06_07.html every hour 700 muslims are converting to christianity - how about that Herr Hajji Ex-christian ha ha :) ------> read here : http://www.balaams-ass.com/alhaj/append-19.htm#part5
http://www.fearbush.com/forums/index.php?s=c5922af102df08e11fa8f3057e4c097c&showtopic=10243&st=0&#entry147792 ( hundreds of thousands defy iranian clerics and their henchmen !) http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4325421/ ( growing gulf between iranians and their hypocritical islamist leaders ) http://www.islamreview.com/articles/islamapostasyprint.htm
Sister Ayesha Nyanaponika Kim Ex-Christian, now Muslim | 2005-04-08 18:03 | Link UNC STUDENT WHO BECAME MUSLIM Doyle Murphy, Greeley Trib, 4/7/05 http://www.greeleytrib.com/article/20050407/NEWS/104070102/?rs=2 The hardest part was telling her mother. For almost two years Liz Sealing had been learning more and more about Islam. A Muslim friend told her about the rules against drinking and dating. She didn't understand it, but began reading about Islam. She began to believe what she read. Eventually, she had to make a decision. She couldn't keep believing and not act. She became a Muslim, and then had to tell her Christian family. "I sent them an e-mail explaining it," Sealing said. "I couldn't call them." Sealing looks comfortable now. Wearing a long black dress and a long-sleeved burgundy blouse with a white hijab covering her head, she moved easily through a festival of Arabian culture Wednesday on the University of Northern Colorado campus. When members of the Muslim Student Association gathered for a picture, she giggled and shuffled into position with the other girls. She covered her hair with a hijab for the first time at the beginning of this semester, the second of her senior year at UNC. Her mom replied right away to Sealing's e-mail. She called later that night. She'd had no idea her 20-year-old daughter was becoming a Muslim. She had lots of questions. She was worried. She'd heard Muslims were violent and they treated women poorly. She still asks Sealing if she's going to be all right, if there's any possibility she'll get sucked into some kind of trouble with the government. Sealing's Arabic teacher, Essam Aldwayan, was at the Arabian Nights festival Wednesday. He volunteered to teach the class twice a week for anyone who wants to learn the language. Between 20 and 30 students make it to one of the sessions each week. Aldwayan, 32, said he's amazed at Sealing's progress. "She's doing great," Aldwayan said. "Whenever you're interested in something you learn really fast." Sealing's 23-year-old brother still doesn't understand. He points to violence on the news and asks her about brutality toward women. She just tells him that's not the way Islam is supposed to be practiced. Sealing's close to her family, but it can be difficult being around them. They ask her questions better suited for a scholar. Kim Sook-Im, US | 2005-04-08 18:36 | Link Darliiiiing ex christian, You nasty boy, talking about arabic etc, might confuse people into thinking that all arabs are muslims. Your little propaganda piece do no justice to the arabic language. Folks you can study arabic and still won't be in danger of being suckered into the islamoid maelstrom. Well that poor girl in colorado, she's most likely a tat bit soft in the head and gullible and easily influenced by cult members...we have a lot of cases of people joining cults all the time.....sun young moon people.moonies, hare krishna people ( their agendae are at least less violent and rather mild ). I just had a heart-felt talk with a jehovah witness salesman. Poor guy mistaking me for a poor innocent korean farm-girl gullible enough for him to peddle his godly wares !(I've developed immunity after exposure to our korean home grown moonies) Oh ...regarding those poor indian folks down in Chiapa , mexico..it is known that the islamoid proselytizers use monetary incentives to attract their gullible victims - so much for self determination ha ha. Ex-christian dear, how many gullible folks have you converted (reverted - muslims assume that everyone is born muslims and have deviated away from the one true cult, and therefore must revert back to the mother-brood, hence 'revert' not 'convert' - smart use of semantics)...I don't see you bragging about your own success, only other's 'success' ha ha. You should know by now that 90 % if muslims are only lip service members. In many countries the only reason they stay muslim is because of the cult like coercion and enforcement....kind of like being trapped in the Mafia !!! Sister Ayesha Nyanaponika Kim Thomas Bolding Hansen - Denmark | 2005-04-08 19:25 | Link "For almost two years Liz Sealing had been learning more and more about Islam. A Muslim friend told her about the rules against drinking and dating. She didn't understand it, but began reading about Islam. She began to believe what she read." Well I don´t drink, paying to lose intelligence is not anything I see a point in. As for dating, one way you have to meet your future spouse, and getting forced to marry some dork that want a place in the sun and will leave his wife in the shadow, is not a good option. Let´s see how this 21 year old confused and gullible Liz will feel about islam after some years with a tyrant that do not tolerate her going out to much, listening to music or watching tv, reading books that are not moslem? A man who personally killed hundreds of people and ordered the killing of even more, then raped the widows of those he had killed the very same day. Now how will Liz react when she find out this among other is what it means to be moslem, to follow Mohammed and his command, to be his slaves? Will she become a true moslem or just another pretender scared of the consequences if she leave ? Kim Sook-Im,US | 2005-04-08 20:07 | Link Good one there Thomas Hansen, well ex-christian what say you to that. Will our poor liz still be a true muslimah after she finds out the truth about the cult she just signed on, or will she leave or will she stay because she is scared silly about being hunted down ? A lot of the islamoid agents operating in the land of the kuffaars are presenting a fake image of islam and our revisionist,apologistic and multiculturalist government and their proxies are catering to the islamoids and digging our graves for us.... i predict Canada will soon be a goner like france, already their judiciary is kowtowing to the 'pro-Shariah' groups in their multiculturalist cauldron ...as if all cultures are eaually alike much less benign ! Darling ex-christian here are some articles about lying to spread islam - read them for your bed-time stories , honey:
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/056125.php ( it would be nice if that poor kid Liz were to read this 'islam awareness week' info ) http://www.blessedcause.org/protest/truth%20about%20muslims.htm
Sister Ayesha Nyanaponika Kim Ex-Christian, now Muslim | 2005-04-10 20:30 | Link CURIOSITY SPAWNED BY 9-11 LEADS SOME LATINOS TO CONVERT TO ISLAM Hern Rozemberg, Express-News, 1/25/05 http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/MYSA012505.1A.latino.muslims.3f873650.html Like most youngsters growing up around his West San Antonio neighborhood, Jesْs Villarreal was raised Catholic. He went to church every Sunday, took Communion and attended catechism classes. But he eventually strayed from the church, remaining in religious limbo for years until stumbling upon an unexpected answer - Islam. Indeed, thousands of Latinos across the country - both U.S.-born and immigrants - have been converting to Islam since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks sparked massive U.S. societal interest in the religion and its billion followers worldwide. No definitive research exists on the ethnic breakdown of the U.S. Muslim population, estimated by the Islamic Society of North America at 8 million to 10 million people. Most surveys identify African Americans as the largest group, but little is known about Latino conversion patterns. "It's a small religious phenomenon," said Edwin Hernلndez, director of the Center for the Study of Latino Religion at the University of Notre Dame. "There's a lot we don't know. It's on our radar screen." A 2001 study by the Council on American-Islamic Relations estimated 6 percent of 20,000 annual converts to Islam are Latinos. Studies variously list 25,000 to 75,000 Latino Muslims in the United States; most concur there are roughly 40,000. Ex-Christian, now Muslim | 2005-04-10 20:32 | Link Latino Americans Embracing Islam By Kenny Yusuf Rodriguez The call to prayer echoed throughout the corridors of the mosque when Jamil slipped off his shoes and entered the prayer hall. After exchanging greetings of "As salaam `alaykum," or peace be upon you, to his fellow Muslim brothers, he proceeded to offer his morning prayer. As he recited verses from the Qur'an in Arabic, his Spanish accent was clearly audible to anyone in listening distance. Upon appearance, many would assume that Jamil was a Muslim man of Middle Eastern descent. But no, in actuality, Jamil is a Puerto Rican Muslim. This scenario is not so far-fetched. Many people often perceive Islam as a religion exclusively followed by people of Arab or Asian descent. However, Latino Muslims are breaking all conventional stereotypes of what Muslims "are" or "should be," proving that Islam truly transcends all racial, ethnic and language boundaries. According to the American Muslim Council, tens of thousands of Latino Americans across the country have been accepting Islam. It is estimated that there are anywhere between 20,000 and 60,000 Latino Muslims in the United States, predominately in New York City, Chicago, Miami, Southern California, and Texas. In her book, Islam in America, Islamic Studies professor Jane Smith states that Islam was first introduced into the Latino community during the 1970s in the inner-city barrios, or Spanish neighborhoods, of the northern East Coast. In the decades since, Islam has successfully spread across the country to members of all Spanish- speaking nationalities including Puerto Ricans, Cubans, Dominicans, Mexicans and Colombians. "Latinos have always had an interest in Islam," says a 22-year-old Latina convert from the Falls Church, Virginia area. The sister, who did not wish her name to be disclosed, continues by saying, "Islam has many values that Latinos hold, such as respect for others, closeness of family ties, and worship." Other similar themes, such as the emphasis placed on respect for the mother, the importance of education, and the central role religion has in society, remain as a common thread between Islam and Latino culture. Juan Alvarado, a 32-year-old Muslim convert whose family hails from the Dominican Republic, marvels at how his Spanish-speaking grandmother, who is not a Muslim, would always cover her hair when going out in public. "It is amazing that my very own grandmother … used to never leave the house without wearing a paٌuelo (scarf) on her head," he recalls. A New York City resident who changed his name to Shafeeq Abdullah Muhammad upon becoming Muslim, Alvarado reminisces on how his grandmother would always wear long skirts and dresses, and how "even in the summer she would cover." The Legacy of Moorish Spain This correlation between Islam and Spanish culture is not a new phenomenon. Islam has been deeply embedded in Spanish history since the early 8th century CE. As a result, many comment that this Latino movement toward Islam is nothing more than a return to their religious roots. In 711 CE, less than a century after the death of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), Moorish general Tariq Ibn Ziyad set sail from present-day Morocco and landed on a rocky mount on the tip of Spain, which would later be renamed Gibraltar. Following this expedition, thousands of North African Moors began to flood into the region. Within in the next three years (711-714), the Muslim Moors would spread across southern Spain and penetrate into the borders of present-day Portugal. They renamed the land al-Andalus, or Andalusia, and for nearly eight centuries to follow, it would rise to become one of the brightest beacons of development and education in the Eastern Hemisphere. By improving on the knowledge gathered from the diverse peoples whom they traded with, the Moors set precedents in the fields of mathematics, philosophy, geography, navigation, astronomy, botany and medicine. Agriculturally, for example, with the help of dry farming techniques and drainage systems, the Moors introduced a variety of new crops into the region including oranges, bananas, strawberries, dates, sugar cane and rice (Carew, 69). As a result, many Spanish words for foods and spices have Arabic origins, such as albahaca (basil), azucلr (sugar), limَnes (lemons), arroz (rice), naranjas (oranges), espinaca (spinach), and zanahorias (carrots). In an on- line article entitled "Spanish's Arab Connection," editor Gerald Erichsen comments that after Latin and English, Arabic is perhaps the biggest contributor of words to the Spanish language. "There is no doubt that Islam influenced Hispanic culture," says Rafael Umar Miranda, a Puerto Rican brother who converted at the age of 21. "The very words we use when we speak Spanish are a testament to this." "I have an ongoing list of Spanish words that originally were Arabic," Miranda further explains, adding that his list is "already in the hundreds." What is it about Islam? So what exactly is it about Islam that is attracting so many Latino converts? In a brief autobiographical essay, Juan Alvarado describes the long journey he took researching various religions, and how it ended with him ultimately accepting Islam. "Typically, like other Latinos, I was born into the Catholic faith," Alvarado explains. "I went through the motions of what it means to be Catholic … But by the time I was a teen, I was growing impatient with Catholicism and started exploring different forms of spiritualities." Alvarado, who considers himself spiritual since his childhood, explains how he used to visit various churches, but "just could not feel that sense of belonging." "I saw some things that I liked, but it just did not get a hold of my full interest," he says. After some years of searching, Alvarado stumbled upon some Islamic material and it appealed to him. After a little research, he decided to convert. "I am now 28 and I love to read, but I no longer am searching," Alvarado says, "I have found what the truth is." "From what I have seen, [Latinos] are drawn to the pure monotheism where there is no trinity mystery and complex metaphors to explain how `three' equals `one'," explains Rasheed Cordero, an Argentinean brother who resides in Florida. "The emphasis on obtaining knowledge" also helps to attract Latino converts, he adds. Struggles and Obstacles Although content with their religious beliefs, many Latino Muslims who accept Islam often have many obstacles to overcome. Isa Lima, a 21-year-old brother from the Washington, D.C. area, recalls what it was like when he became a Muslim six years ago. "I was afraid about what others would do to me when I first converted," Lima says, "so I kept it a secret." Lima, whose parents are from the Dominican Republic and Guatemala, admits that he could keep his conversion hidden for only so long. "After a while, my family knew I had accepted Islam because they noticed me making Wudu' (ablution), and they would hear me praying Fajr," Lima comments. "They considered my conversion to be a result of `brainwashing' by Muslim immigrants who gave me Da'wah," Lima says. But for the most part, he explains that his family has "accepted and liked some aspects of Islam and has rejected others." Lima goes on to explain that there are many brothers and sisters who face even greater opposition. He relates the story of one brother he knows who was placed in a situation where he had to choose between his religion and his family. "His family gave him a strange ultimatum," Lima says. "Either be our son or be Muslim." In the end, the brother clung to his decision and was forced to move out of his parents' house. Rasheed Cordero remembers certain instances outside of his home where he encountered his own problems. As a student at Florida International University, Cordero explains one incident when he and a few Muslim brothers were praying in an empty classroom. "We were praying and a couple of guys walked in for a meeting they had and they were like, `Hey!'" Cordero explains, "so the students went and got security." "By the time they came back, we were done," he continues. When the guards arrived, they asked if everything was all right, and Cordero answered with an affirmative "Of course." On the way out, one of the students who called security made a smart remark in Spanish assuming that they wouldn't understand him. One of the Muslim brothers responded, saying that he didn't have to go and call security. "The guy was shocked," Cordero says. He probably didn't expect a Muslim to be able to speak Spanish. Cordero also recalls some annoyances that regularly occur to many Muslims, converts and non-converts alike. Sometimes "I'm home praying and the phone rings, or someone knocks," he mentions, but "they can wait," Cordero adds with a laugh. Isa Lima says that, although converts to Islam at times endure difficult obstacles, the best examples to follow are those of the earliest Muslims. "The most amazing and heart-touching stories of Muslims being fought against because of their acceptance of Islam are concerning the Sahabah," Lima explains, referring to the righteous companions of the Prophet (pbuh). As far as his own problems, Lima boldly states, "I didn't meet opposition that couldn't be defeated easily with Allah (swt) as my protector." Hopes for the Future Samantha Sanchez and Juan Galvan, co-founders of LADO (Latin American Da'wah Organization), are currently in the process of compiling a book of Muslim conversion stories entitled Latinos Revert to Islam: What's Old is New Again. "We need to let the world know that Latino Muslims exist," Galvan states on the LADO website, www.latinodawah.com. Galvan goes on to illustrate the parallel between Latinos being the fastest growing group in the US, and Islam as the fastest growing religion in the world. "By 2050, one of out every four Americans will be Latino," Galvan mentions, "insha'Allah, with our book many Americans will wonder `Why are so many Latinos converting to Islam? What is it about that religion?" At the same time, many Hispanic Muslims envision the message of Islam reaching populations in Central America and the Caribbean. "Latin America is ripe for Islam," Juan Alvarado comments. "It is incredible that despite everything, Islam is still growing which to me proves the veracity of Islam." Isa Lima offers similar hopes for the future. "The message of Islam can be spread to Latin America," Lima says, mentioning that this is a part of the world that would greatly benefit from the principles of Islam, such as justice, discipline and education. "It's our duty as Muslims to give Da'wah," Lima explains. "This is an area that Muslims need to seriously reach out to." But Lima mentions that ultimately, the success of Muslims is dependent on the will of Allah (swt). "Allah united the hearts of the Sahabah with Iman (faith)," he says, "and hopefully our communities will unite in a similar manner." Notes and References Carew, Jan. Rape of Paradise. A & B Books Publishers. New York: 1994. Erichsen, Gerald, ed. "Spanish's Arab Connection: Language of the Moors is Major Contributor to Vocabulary." About.com. 24 Sept. 2001. http://spanish.about.com/library/weekly/aa092401a.htm? (2 Feb. 2002). Smith, Jane I. Islam In America. Columbia University Press. New York: 1999. http://hispanicmuslims.com/articles/moreembracing.html Herbie, NY NY | 2005-04-12 19:23 | Link Take the following test. In 1972 at the Munich Olympics, athletes were kidnaped and massacred by: In 1979,the U.S. embassy in Iran was taken over by: (a) Lost Norwegians During the 1980's a number of Americans were kidnaped in Lebanon by: In 1983, the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by: In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked, and a 70 year old American passenger was murdered and thrown overboard by: In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, and a U.S. Navy diver was murdered by: In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by: In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed the first time by: In 1998, the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by: On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked and destroyed and thousands of people were killed by: In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and murdered by: I can see why people think Islam is a peaceful religion Kim Sook-Im,US | 2005-04-13 09:59 | Link " CURIOSITY SPAWNED BY 9-11 LEADS SOME LATINOS TO CONVERT TO ISLAM......" Well if christians had committed a 9-ll kamikaze in a muslim country, all christians in that country ( assuming there is such a thing as plurality of religion in a muslim country) would have been exterminated overnite in a frenzy of religious retaliation. The fact that americans can still convert to islam and that some latinos are drawn to islam is incontrovertible proof of the superiority of an open society such as the US of A where the populace is so generous that even after 9-11, inordinante efforts were taken to protect muslims from retaliation and in fact numerous apologists and multiculturalists speak in fervent support of the religion of isssslam and try to distance the heinous crime of the islamists from the religion of isssslam. Sooo ...Herr Hajji Ex-Christian your little propaganda piece about misguided latinos embracing islam after 9-11 just back-fired. Instead of showing how latinos have been suckered into this cult, you have demonstrated how magnanimous, generous and tolerant an open society such as US of A can be.......all this in contrast to hegemony, mean-spirit, and intolerance which is the hall mark of a society in the grip of an irrational Cult. Sister Ayesha Nyanaponika Kim Herbie, NY NY | 2005-04-13 23:11 | Link According to Rueters, "GENEVA - The United Nations Commission on Human Rights called on Tuesday for combating defamation of religions, especially Islam, and condemned discrimination against Muslims in the West's war on terrorism" Now wouldn't it be nice if they called upon Muslims to stop preaching in thier mosques that "Jews ands Christians are the sons of monkeys and pigs." Herbie, NY NY | 2005-04-15 14:22 | Link At the Bankstown Town Hall in Sydney, Australia, Sheikh Feiz Muhammad: "Every minute in the world a woman is raped, and she has no one to blame but herself, for she has displayed her beauty to the whole world,” Sheikh Feiz Muhammad told a packed public meeting in the Bankstown Town Hall last month. “Strapless, backless, sleeveless - they are nothing but satanical. Mini-skirts, tight jeans - all this to tease men and to appeal to (their) carnal nature.” There was pressure on Muslim women to unveil, the sheikh said, and this was because “they want you to be available for their gross, disgusting, filthy abomination! They want you to be a sex symbol!” The woman who wore the hijab was hiding her beauty from the eyes of “lustful, hungry wolves”, he said. Sheikh Feiz Muhammad teaches at the Global Islamic Youth Centre in Liverpool, NSW. His long, ranting speech, damning and ridiculing Western culture (if you allow your wife to watch the “devil” of daytime television, he advised men, you will come home from work and find she is being “negative” towards you) was greeted with frequent applause." Thomas Bolding Hansen - Denmark | 2005-04-15 16:59 | Link This guy missed the bus, he doesn´t realize how hard western men are to turn on, and how many marriages without don´t matter how much the female tries to get it going :) Anyway guess from which country the most hits on WWW pronsites comes from ? Saudi Arabia I heard, don´t know if it´s true but doesn´t sound unlikely. These people are sick, so was their prophet. Now besides if these moslems can´t control themselves by seeing a woman dressed in a way that does not hide her attractiveness, they should move to SA where females look like tents. And join the SA internet porn watchers. ´Let´s do a parable: " I invite a guest to my house, I serve food, drink, snacks, everything. While this guy is eating happily, he starts to comment on my furniture, "No that is not the right place, the table should be here, and this there etc." He starts to comment on my wife, "she is bad host, I already emptied this glass and she hasn´t poured me any more" He steals a silver dish" No no you should have locked this in you fool, you were asking me to steal it". Herbie, NY NY | 2005-04-15 17:38 | Link There is an old saying: "fool me once shame on you"; "fool me twice shame on me" Duh | 2005-04-16 16:20 | Link Hey, that saying wasn't in the past. It was in the future. Scotty said that on Star Trek. Herbie, NY NY | 2005-04-16 17:56 | Link Well The future is now :-) Thomas Bolding Hansen - Denmark | 2005-04-16 18:48 | Link Depends, we certainly been fooled more than once. Sandy P | 2005-04-20 01:55 | Link Via LGF: A book that’s quietly being distributed within Norway’s Muslim community refers to Norwegians as the sons of Satan. The book, written by an anonymous author, has been turned over to police by Oslo’s Anti-Racism Center. In addition to associating Norwegians with the devil, the book lashes out at Norwegian ethics and morality. The author, believed to be a mullah or other Muslim religious leader living in Oslo, claims that Norwegians don’t have legitimate children. “They’re conceived here and there,” claims the author. Several local politicians who themselves are Muslims say they’re appalled by the book. “I can’t accept that this author pretends he’s speaking on behalf of all Muslims or Pakistanis,” Kamil Azhar of the Labour Party told newspaper VG on Tuesday. “The book’s content is ridiculous and far from reality.” Azhar joined other Muslim politicians and the Anti-Racism Center’s efforts to get the book labelled as illegal, on the grounds it violates Norwegian law against racist expression. A Norwegian lawyer who specializes in free speech issues said the book, called “Satan’s son,” appears to teeter on the edge of legality. Turning it in to the police, however, isn’t a good idea, says lawyer Kyrre Eggen.“I believe Muslims have the same right to freedom of expression as Norwegians do in relation to Muslims,” Eggen said. “The best response is open debate, not to go to the police.” The book, written in Urdu, was published by a group called the All Pakistan Muslim Society. The group isn’t registered in Norway. The author calls Norwegians “barbarians” and “poisonous snakes” who have poisoned humanity. “These white men have set off a devilish spiral in the whole world... to plague people,” according to the book. This is what somes' white guilt gets, welcome to the club, Norway! Herbie, NY NY | 2005-04-20 15:33 | Link In fairness, the Muslim community in Norway reported this book, asked that it be banned and strongly denounced it. That is a hell of a lot more than CAIR does in the US or Muslims in other countries do when similar stuff surfaces in those countries, e.g Holland or Sweden. I would say that your comments about white guilt more aptly apply to Sweden and Holland which may hold the distinction of having the most dopes elected to office in Europe – except, of course, France which continues to hold the record for the most dopes elected. Herbie, NY NY | 2005-04-20 22:12 | Link Another example of islamic tolerance: "ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - A Pakistani man accused of desecrating the Koran was shot dead Wednesday after being chased by an angry crowd. [He] Sandy P | 2005-04-21 04:23 | Link Hey, Herbie, read about the female journalist in GA(?) who understands Arabic? I think LGF had that tidbit, too. Herbie, NY NY | 2005-04-21 14:43 | Link You bet :-) kim sook-im | 2005-04-22 07:10 | Link Sandy and Herbie, Sook-Im Sandy P | 2005-04-23 00:32 | Link Am I late to the party? Via LGF: ...Celebrity Pentecostal preacher Runar Søgaard is under protection by Swedish police after receiving death threats. A high-profile sermon where Søgaard called the prophet Mohammed “a confused pedophile” has triggered fears of religious war. Søgaard, 37, enjoys celebrity status in Sweden after his marriage to recording star and Eurovision song contest winner Carola, even though they are now divorced. “Even if I see Runar while he has major police protection I will shoot him to death,” a radical Islamist told Swedish newspaper Expressen. Persons connected to the Kurdish group Ansar al-Islam claim to have received a fatwa, a decree from a Muslim religious leader, to kill Søgaard.... Sandy P | 2005-04-23 00:33 | Link In short, hard sell to the male jihadis, but soft sell to the American women by muslim women on the religion of peace, how much we have in common. Came out last week, LGF should have the link. I know some other site does as well, but sometimes I cover a lot of ground. Thomas Bolding Hansen - Denmark | 2005-04-23 00:40 | Link I just found it here, there is an update to the story : http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=15535_Followup_on_Small_Town_Jihad&only=yes Sandy P | 2005-04-26 07:23 | Link DAmn, almost got the bastard. But got the next best thing, his hard drive. Jordanian rebel Abu Musab al-Zarqawi — Iraq’s most wanted fugitive — recently eluded capture by American troops, but left behind a treasure trove of information, a senior military official told ABC News.... kim sook-im | 2005-04-27 19:46 | Link Hei Ex Christian, are you still out there...take a look at this articles and don't get all excited o.k., but just to show you that others such as buddhism are also growing world wide ...thought this might put a damper on your wild propaganda LOL LOL LOL.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/buddhism.htm ( buddhism fast growing in canada and US) http://www.sakya.org/Introduction_to_Tibetan_Buddhism.htm ( buddhism , one of fastest growing relligion (?) in the U.S.) http://www.explore-reading.com/literature/B/Buddhism_by_country.html ( here is a reliable break-down of adherents of the various religions world wide - not that it matters much to buddhists in general since we are not obsessesed with country club membership like mr. ex christian is...but just so we know that mr. ex christian does engage in hyperbole ha ha ) Sister Ayesha Nyanaponika Kim Ali Dashti | 2005-04-27 22:50 | Link Ex-Christian: Will you stop with that bloody spamming some day??? It's one of the reasons why I have grown tired of debating here. Herbie, NY NY | 2005-04-29 21:44 | Link Ah yes Islam the religion of tolerance: “On April 23, 2005, Saudi newspapers reported that 40 Pakistanis were arrested by the Saudi religious police in a Riyadh apartment for conducting Christian religious activity. The following are excerpts from the reports: http://www.memri.org/bin/opener_latest.cgi?ID=SD90105 Herbie, NY NY | 2005-05-05 22:16 | Link Ah yes Islam the religion of peace http://www.mirror.co.uk/news Scotland Yard has sent details of the bombs - which are primed to go off as the wearer is frisked by security staff - to all the major airports, including busy Heathrow and Gatwick. The memo warns one suicide bomber in Colombo, Sri Lanka, killed herself and four police officers. "The device exploded as the attacker was being searched by two female constables," it says. * * * In 2002 Ayat al-Akhrass, 15, stuffed her bra with Semtex and detonated the bomb in a supermarket in Jerusalem, killing herself and two shoppers . Ex-Christian, now Muslim | 2005-05-08 14:50 | Link Islam converts stay their paths despite hardships Thirty-five years ago, at age 12, Reymund Nur converted to Islam while still living in his parents' Methodist household. Five years ago, Boni Bee was a young Hindu woman seeking clarity and purpose in her life. Last spring, Leilani Downing was reading the Christian Bible and looking for meaning in Christianity, her birth religion. Today, all three are Muslims and live their lives according to the laws of Islam. http://www.dailybruin.ucla.edu/news/articles.asp?id=31695 Ex-Christian, now Muslim | 2005-05-08 14:54 | Link Why British Women are turning to Islam THE SPREAD OF A WORLD CREED http://www.islamfortoday.com/british_women.htm Turning to Islam -- African-American Conversion Stories http://www.religion-online.org/showarticle.asp?title=2877
Aborigines turn to Islam By Phil Mercer A rising number of young Aborigines in Australia are converting to Islam. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/2902315.stm
:)))) Thomas Bolding Hansen - Denmark | 2005-05-08 23:19 | Link "mindless pathetic devil-possessed Islamophobes" Says it all, no further comment needed. Ex-Christian, now Muslim | 2005-05-09 17:50 | Link Says it all !!! not really, here is more :))) Islam Growing in Central Iowa Des Moines, May 5th, 2005 - Islam is the fastest-growing religion in the United States. Here in Iowa, it seems to be no different, and there are few reasons why so many Iowans are connecting with this faith. http://www.whotv.com/Global/story.asp?s=3305110
kim sook-im | 2005-05-11 09:32 | Link Salaam alaykum Here are a couple of reliable reports regarding the decline of islam which you may wish to carefully peruse. You know making spurious claims is a form of lying. Verily Allah loveth not one who lies ! Sister Ayesha Nyanaponika Kim http://observer.guardian.co.uk/worldview/story/0,11581,746587,00.html
... as various thinkers and movements sought to analyze the cause of Islam's decline and to define what it means to be Muslim. In the current war, ...click the following to read more on the various traditions of islam aside from the wildly propagandistic and pueril form which ex-christian seem to entertain LOL----> http://www.acton.org/publicat/randl/print_article.php?id=408 Ex-Christian, now Muslim | 2005-05-13 12:37 | Link More oppression against American Muslims: Georgia Mosque facing strong opposition Source: News Channel 9 A building proposal for an Islamic Mosque in Whitfield County, Georgia is facing strong opposition from both residents and county officials. A group of Muslims are requesting a special use permit to build a mosque in an area in Whitfield for which a larger group is opposing the project. Last week the Planning and Zoning Commission recommended approval, leaving the final decision in the hands of the County Commission. The Dalton Islamic Center had put a request before the board for a permit to build a larger facility on Dug Gap Road. However, the commission didn't vote "No,” but they didn't vote "Yes." Instead, they voted to table the issue, saying they were concerned about the area's sewage and traffic. But members of the Islamic Center say the postponement is just discrimination. read the whole article here: http://www.islamonline.com/cgi-bin/news_service/world_full_story.asp?service_id=1589 Comments: I am just wondering how the mindless Islamophobes would react had it been a muslim town which refused to allow christians to build a church !!!! And before you jump to Saudi Arabia, I will say there are 56 muslim states which allow christians to build and worship freely ! why muslims cant enjoy the same freedom non-muslims are enjoying in muslim lands ???? kim sook-im | 2005-05-13 15:29 | Link Sure , Show me one muslim counry that practises separation of church and state and i'll show you a man on the moon :)))) p.s. just use your brain and logic, why would a universal God be so obsessed with sex,genitilia, false modesty and a bunch of bedouinic middle eastern customs and folklores ??? YOU ARE A CHILD OF THE INTELLIGENT UNIVERSE. GOD in this respect is the ground of all being, God is in everything, in a tree , in an ant, even a stone is alive with the 'life' of God - all things in creation is of God....but you in your evil pretend to have God divide the world into members of your cult and non members to be annihilated. How petty can your 'god' get, if it has to punish you because you put your left foot forward instead of the right one before entering the mossque??? I think you better start reading up the Sufi traditions which were developed in an attempt to balance the irrationality of your cult :)))..well actually the Sufi's already had a tadition that predates mohammad LOL.
Herbie, NY NY | 2005-05-13 16:10 | Link
http://www.discoverthenetwork.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=6263 At bottom he too would refuse and only continue to whine and whine kim sook-im | 2005-05-14 10:45 | Link Yes Herbie, Ex-christian ...it behooves you to read the followiing eye opening articles. The following is a somewhat irreverent treatise on religions perse .... but so full of undeniable veracity ------>
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If there is any threat of a “one world religion” it comes from Christianity, which shows little sign of slowing its assault on “false religions” using bribes, social pressure, political control of governments, local and national persecution, and a propaganda campaign that is second to none. Although Christianity has had little success against Islam except by direct conquest, how long can its supremacy in fundraising and firepower be held at bay by any other faith? This dominance of our world by a limited set of beliefs is not a good thing for humanity. There are several important reasons why we should fear the loss of diversity in beliefs. 1. The spread of "world" religions such as Christianity and Islam has destroyed most of the world's traditional religions. Many beliefs once sacred have now been regulated to museums and anthropology texts. The loss of so many "living" religions is a profound blow to human culture. (The loss of languages and other cultural traditions due to increased secular homogenization is a similar issue). Beliefs such as a spiritual connection to dead ancestors, or a nature that is filled with spirits, or even much-maligned polytheism, have provided humanity with a rich and beautiful diversity of worldviews. 2. The benefits of religious diversity go beyond simply keeping the world "interesting". If all Humanity had the same religion, even a peaceful one (which Christianity is not), we would lose most of our creativity and the capacity for philosophical insight. Religious diversity expands the mind; when a single belief system dominates a society, it limits the mind. This is dangerous even in a modern, scientific society because the scientists themselves need to be able to rethink their (culturally-conditioned) views of the universe. Otherwise, important discoveries (such as the heliocentric solar system or the evolution of life) are delayed even though the evidence may be readily available. 3. There is an even greater danger in religious homogenization: it will stop the moral development of humanity. Most of the sacred values that Americans take pride in, such as Democracy, Freedom, and Equal "Rights" have little to do with any single religious tradition, while in every religion once-acceptable ideas (Slavery in Christianity, Castes in Hinduism, female inferiority in almost all faiths) have been thrown out. Our values are constantly being shaped and improved by the clash of new ideas against old; foreign ideas against native. But diversity in thought is required for future moral advancement. If, instead, one belief system starts to dominate the world, the open thought and debate required to improve laws and values will be extinguished. Even if freedom of speech is preserved, the absence of any source for new and different ideas will be fatal. Instead of becoming moral beings, most humans will simply follow orders as they have always been taught, and continue to do countless evil things just because the one dominant religion has declared those acts acceptable. Just as in genetics, a social monoculture of religious beliefs is a dangerous thing for the survival of a species. If you believe that a "free market of ideas" is the best possible way to handle the existence of diverse views, it is imperative that the competition between beliefs be based only on the value of the ideas and not the ability of religious organizations to use political or financial advantages to establish a monopoly. Today, there is an unfair bias in the contest of conversions because the two largest, best-financed and most widespread faiths—the "Jealous-God" religions of Christianity and Islam—got that way by conquest and persecution. The monopoly that Christianity has on the Americas, Australia, and much of sub-Saharan Africa and Europe is a strength for that faith—they can keep these areas free of competition with little effort while pouring their propaganda and "charity" into targeted regions where other religions struggle to emerge and recover from the impact of European colonialism and forced conversions. Islam’s dominance of the Middle East, Indonesia, and North Africa is a similar fortress. If these two faiths continue to dominate, who will point out that their spread is not based on having a better message but because of unfair advantages caused by the atrocities and conquests of the past? [Of course the politically correct continue to argue that the bloody and repressive history of Christianity and Islam is the result of a few corrupt individuals hijacking a peaceful and tolerant faith. This is wrong.] It is clear that we face the elimination of much of humanity’s religious diversity in the next century due to the dominance of the two Jealous-God religions. We have a lot to lose if these intolerant ideologies are allowed to dominate the world. An effort must be made to protest all unfair conversions that are based on force, or economic or social pressure, or a huge disparity in advertising budgets (including charity “bribes”). This is not an argument against conversion itself; Buddhism for example has been a very successful missionary religion while avoiding these unethical tactics for most of its history; and every religion, even those that today restrict themselves to a single ethnic group, at one time had to spread from person to person. Conversion between worldviews is part of the human experience. But just like a Mafia business violates the ideal of ethical capitalism, or a One-Party Regime’s election violates the spirit of democracy, the current tactics of Christianity and Islam are unethical and must be reformed if we are ever to have a free and fair exchange of spiritual ideas. Otherwise, we can never consider the adoption of an idea by a majority of a nation’s people to be based on the merits of the idea instead of the ruthlessness of whatever combination of power and propaganda that was used to spread it. God Wars: Memes struggle for survival in the human population [New Window] Buddhism, Islam and memetics [New Window] Dr. Susan Blackmore [New Window] Sister Ayesha Nyanaponika Kim kim sook-im | 2005-05-14 11:11 | Link Fellow blogistanis,
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