So explain to me: Why would the CIA kidnap an imam suspected of al-Qaeda connections .. and then send him to Egypt? Unless it's to have him tortured, I mean.

It's a matter of logistics and practicality. Egypt is the closest ally really committed to fighting the war on terrorism. Egypt is a place where we expect a suspected terrotist to be thoroughly interrogated (without torture), just like any other person suspected of a capital crime. Oh, that's right, there's no such thing as a capital crime in Europe. We can't expect that any of the Europolice would even arrest, much less hold, the Imam for questioning, and if by chance they did, they probably wouldn't pursue a very rigorous line of interrogation. Transporting the Imam to Egypt doesn't automaticaly mandate torture, it's just prudent police work.

"Transporting the Imam to Egypt doesn't automaticaly mandate torture, it's just prudent police work."

Uh-huh. So an airplane ticket to Guantanamo is too high a price to pay to lock up a potential terrorist? You're basically suggesting the US should outsource the war on terror to Arab dictatorships to save money?

Dire circumstances require drastic measures. Transporting the Imam to a muslim country such as egypt is prudent and politically, culturally and religiously appropriate. The US is then exculpated from possible irrational accusations of illegally detaining a 'muslim' or worse accusations of 'torturing' a (in)famous 'Imam' at their guantanamo facility.... why not let the muslim regime of egypt do the interrogations. Are'nt muslims notorious for being 'fair' to their own kind? ...where else can better 'shariah' justice be administered.

aaaaah...but then we have bleeding heart occidental liberals, apologists, leftists, revisionists and the whole caboodle of do-gooders and goody-two-shoes who worry themselves to death and eat their hearts out over the possible and potential mistreatment of this nice and innocent Mr. Imam von alQaeda. I wonder if they were equally preoccupied and agitated when the innocent school kids of Beslan ,Russia were slaughtered in cold blood by the henchmen of violent islamism -a subject matter in which our innocent Mr. Imam specializes in?

This incessant and maddening preoccupation with the niceties of this geneva convention and that convention ad nauseum ,will surely be the achilles heel of western democracies -- little do they know they are up against an enemy that could'nt care less for the niceties of western conventions and whose singular objective is the annihilation of all the enemies of Isssslam by whatever means available.......and all this is sanctioned and commanded by their Deity and revealed in their unholy manifesto !

Sister Ayesha Nyanyaponika Kim
Specialist in irrational adamikkk kkkults
أخت عائشة كيم ....خبير في الدّيانات الخطيرة

to "kim sook-im"

"Dire circumstances require drastic measures."

hmmm..what an idea! sounds to me like a good slogan fit for some 21st-century Hitler to promote torture and genocide..

"The US is then exculpated from possible irrational accusations of illegally detaining a 'muslim' or worse accusations of 'torturing' a (in)famous 'Imam' at their guantanamo facility..." bla bla bla bla..bla bla bla bla..

i was again amused by your amazing analysis, loyal as you are to vicious american policymakers no matter what they do (even if no one needs piercing eyes to see their suspicious manipulating fingerprints in a lot of the world misfortunes..it seems that almost everybody in the world knows that.. except........ you..!!!)

can you bear to read another point of view about child abuse ugly scandals which were not written by muslims..?
here they are,

http://www.notinourname.net/war/torture-5may04.htm
http://www.boingboing.net/2004/07/20/evidence_for_hershs_.html
http://www.sundayherald.com/43796
http://ventura.fordean.org/ventura/blog/2004/07/report-documents-support-allegations.html
http://www.motherjones.com/news/dailymojo/2004/08/08_510.html

"and all this is sanctioned and commanded by their Deity and revealed in their unholy manifesto !"

are you sure that this suspicious deep hatred to 2 billion muslims is justified? or are there any personal motives?

"expert" as you claim to be (???) you must know that:

"و لتجدنّ أشدّ النّاس عداوة للّذين آمنوا اليهود والّذين أشركوا"

"و الله متم نوره و لو كره الكافرون"

"و ليعلم الذين ظلموا أيٍِّ منقلب ينقلبون"

صدق الله العظيم

For centuries now the Islamic world has squirmed in the vicious grasp of error and has remained unable to turn for succor in any way to its own spirit and essence. [** Long article DELETED. Read the rules, no pasting long articles. The rest of the article is here. -BS 3/7]

http://en.fgulen.com/a.page/press/columns/2005/a1964.html

to mofakkir of tunisa,

oooh and here is another rendition ad nauseum -

''They (the disbelievers,jews, christians etc ) want to extinguish Allâh's Light (Islâm) with their mouths, but Allâh will not allow except that His Light should be perfected even though the Kâfirûn (disbelievers) hate it'' The Noble Quran 9:32

bla bla bla

و لتجدنّ أشدّ النّاس عداوة للّذين آمنوا اليهود والّذين أشركوا"

"و الله متم نوره و لو كره الكافرون"

"و ليعلم الذين ظلموا أيٍِّ منقلب ينقلبون"

islamists are always quoting this and that verses from the Quran and killing and slaughtering, and blaming the jews and everyone else... admit it , you subscribe to a warrior cult, plain and simple...and all your arguements point to the fact that you are engaging in plain islamist propaganda.

All that exaggeration about millions of orphans..why you are describiing what islamists are doing in africa , or have you forgotten Darfur so quickly, what about the slaughter in bangladesh during the pakistani civil war, and the millions done in by your hero Mr. Saddam Hussein during the insane wars between iran and iraq....and we have not even touched on the millions and millions who perished courtesy of your 'holy' book and its teachings throughtout history. You have no moral grounds to stand on to pontificate!

...oh and by the way i am not defending the radikkkal christian rights either...their history is just as bloody as that of isssslamism, birds of a feather flock together.

Sweet Sister Aishah Nyanyaponika Kim
specialist in very irrational adamikkk kkkults

to kim sook-im

nice try to translate the verses that i wrote, though you tended to add a little something as usual (i'm getting used to it now).. but as usual again, you have been beside the point (i hate repeating myself, but i think you might need that from time to time).. i wish you would stick to the question we are speaking about and not jump here and there looking for things that some people have done (to be proven - and i'm trying to be objective not defending anyone as you will "surely understand") trying to start from that to degrade islam (to no avail!)... i have never said or considered that saddam hussein was my hero, or spoken about darfur (have you ever been there? i guess you keep on repeating what you're told without much thinking) or even mentioned pakistan or whatever.. we're just speaking about concrete reality of american invaders in iraq and what the present american administration is doing all over the world but it seems that you're unable to find any "moral grounds to stand on to pontificate"..in other words, what i'm trying to do here, is to have some intellectual, civillized discussion about reality (not history) (is it possible?)

one last thing, ya "aysha"..if islam is a warrior cult, then how do you describe the crusades, the french revolution, the state of israel, the former ussr doctrines, nazi and fascist doctrines, mccarthyism, the kkk, and last but not least american democracy in the 20th/21st centuries and all the histroy of cults and doctrines all over the world.. is there one which hasn't been stained by blood? don't you think that the problem lies in man himself and his interpretations? that is real evil!

we muslims consider the holy quran the ultimate guide to peace and brotherhood.. what is your alternative? can we discuss it?

ان الله يأمر بالعدل و الاحسان و ايتاء ذي القربى و ينهى عن الفحشاء و المنكر و البغي. يعظكم لعلّكم تذكّرون."

صدق الله العظيم

salaam Ustadh Mofakkir,

Well most muslims i talk to always engage in hyperbole and they are always quoting this and that verses from the Koran ( right wing fundamentalist christians do that too - and you should not be surprised since Islam is really a persistent form of old testamental christianity that is what the Ahl sSunnah wa Jamaah are practising anyway).

You might be surprised to learn that there are 5 billion other rational human beings on planet earth who do not subscribe to the fairy tale divine origin of your religion's manifesto.

Therefore quoting empty verses to impress others do not always work well..that is why the basic tenets of your religion is still forceful or coercive conversion, first by persuasion then by the sword ( strange that an omnipotent Deity has to employ human henchmen to do this nasty work of slaughtering and converting LOL )
You should visit www.faithfreedom.org and click on Quran - source of violence and hate.

o.k. i was'nt jumping all over the place, but rather putting things in perspective by mentioning the numerous atocities and sins committed by muslims as impelled by their religious tenets to wage war because ' war is appointed unto the believers'. In fact traditional islam holds the mujahid who strife in the name of Allah in higher esteem than a mere mookmin who merely believes...hence the essence of a warrior cult. You cannot deny that the history of islam/islamism is replete with blood and slaughter ( not that the other abrahamic religions are any less violent - in particular olden christianity before it was defanged with the reformation. Islam has never disavow the violent tenets of their religion. In fact the things you write seem to indicate that you revel in warfare and chaos -- why you wish that Iraq should become like afghanistan so that the whole ghastly replay of violence and mayhem can ensue.

Talking about reality, may i joggle your somnolent memory that 90% of all warfare in the world today somehow involves some aspects of muslim or islam...does that not provide you with prima facie evidence of the nefarious nature of this ideology. The fact that you would use all the descriptors such as 'invaders' , ' torture', 'genocide', 'abuse'when talking about hte americans make me blush -- actually you are using all the words that are most appropriately applied to the behaviours of the violent islamists of the world . Abu ghraib is nothing compared to the atrocities perpetrated by current and past islamist regimes and sundry hooligans of Allah. Ooooh and all those links do not hold water...you should be worried about the rampant child abuse in islamic country...slavery, forced child marriages, rape, wanton murder of females/honor killing etc. etc....truly you have no moral grounds whatsoever to engage in any pontification over the americanos ( ohhh and don't misconstrue my statements as exculpating the past sins of america...God forbid, they have their dark sins too, exploitation of the native american indians, slavery of the blacks etc... mostly committed by god fearing christians ( flip side of the ahl ssunnah wa jamaah - members of the jealous-God religions )

Sooooo muslims consider the Quran the ultimate guide to peace and brotherhood(sisterhood? see how inconsiderate and chauvinist you are to not include us sisters?LOL )----> sure,peace and brotherhood for muslims only..to hell with the kuffaaroons , slaughter them and treat them harshly per your good book lol.So you see there is much parallel between the tenets of islam and Nazism where Hitler extolled and excelled one group of humanity over others...in the case of the theofascist ideology Issslam , you are excelling 'muslims' over other humanities and the rest is history LOL. Further how ironic that you would even mention peace and brotherhood, has issslam wrought peace and brotherhood over all this centuries...NOT....instead its history is replete with violence, chaos, mayhem , bloodshed , internecine warfare etc etc... and for you an intelligent man to excuse this nefarious ideology and blame it on human interpretation is certainly revealing of lack of logic .

...ان الله يأمر بالعدل و الاحسان و ايتاء ذي ...ينهى عن الفحشاء و المنكر و البغي. يعظكم
...................... yes , yes allah ( actually mohammad's alter ego ) is forever admonishing , condemning etc.... munkar blaa blaa blaaaa mushrik, moonafiq blaaa blaaa blaaa..ad nauseum...can't you folks do any independent thinking without quoting this and that verse from a compilation of folk lore and superstitions ad nauseum...you are just as bad as the right wing christian fundamentalist forever quoting this or that verse from the old testament which is equally full of violence and bloodshed like the mohammadian manifesto - oh well same genre of birds will flock together and quote together !!!

..what is your alternative? can we discuss it?
SURE..JUST CLICK THE FOLLOWING LINKS ;)

Buddhism, Islam and memetics
Islam and Buddhism. http://www.geocities.com/scimah/. Memes and religions.
Among many anthropologists, sociologists and philosophers, it has recently become ...
www.geocities.com/scimah/memes.htm - 26k

Mahayana Buddhism, brain, mind and arguments against materialism
Buddhism also lacks the intolerance and paranoia typical of memes. ... Buddhism and
Islam - Islamic Awareness for Buddhists - Buddhism in the Global Jihad. ...
www.geocities.com/scimah/ - 24k - Cached - Similar pages
[ More results from www.geocities.com

WWW.BUDDHANET.NET

http://www.geocities.com/scimah/argumentsagainstbuddhism.htm ( arguements against Buddhism )

http://www.geocities.com/scimah/Buddhistteachings.htm (Buddha's Teachings

http://www.geocities.com/scimah/idols.htm

God Wars: Memes struggle for survival in the human population (
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Rhodes/3991/GodWars.html )

Buddhism, Islam and memetics [New Window]
... meme theory explains the difference between Islam and Buddhism. ... Islam and Buddhism. http://www.geocities.com/scimah/. Memes and religions. ...
http://www.geocities.com/scimah/memes.htm

Dr. Susan Blackmore [New Window]
... This is the power of the memes. Buddhism is a meme. ... It is interesting here to compare Zen with Islam or Christianity. At base the memes of Zen are ...
http://www.susanblackmore.co.uk/Articles/Chan02.htm

Well , actually i'm not a proselytizer,but you did ask and so here you are all the above for your perusal and critikkk...tee hee ;)

Sister Ayesha Nyanaponika Kim

أخت عائشة نيانيابونيكا كيم ....إخصائيّ الطّائفة الدّينيّ الخطير
金教授.... 危險宗教崇拜專家

salaams ya Ustadh Mofakkir,

You wrote " .....we muslims consider the holy quran the ultimate guide to peace and brotherhood.. what is your alternative? can we discuss it?..."

..........if you recall Prof. Harun Yahya an eminent islamist scholar wrote a pamphlet about Islam and Buddhism in which he disparaged Buddhism ( naturally LOL !!!). Below is an interesting link to an erudite Rebuttal to the muslim disparaging ,disrespect and insult to the teachings of enlightened Buddha - BuddhaDharma.

...In fact if I may be so bold , i would advocate this fine dissertation as compulsory reading for all aspiring islamist clergies LOL....yes a required reading in all the madrasahs of islamdom !!! :)

..........Responses to an Islamic critique of Buddhism
Islamic female masturbation and genital mutilation. Islamic snuff videos and
movies of beheading and ritual decapitation. Cardinal Ratzinger's comments on .....>>>

www.geocities.com/scimah/idols.htm

( click on this link or copy and paste for the full article on buddhist analysis of Islam as an infectious superMeme )

Sister Ayesha Nyanyaponika kim
Specialist in irrational adamikkk kkkults
Buddhist phenomenologist

العالم البوذيّ
佛教科學家

Meanwhile all is not well and quiet at the Eastern Frontiers:

Muslim violence in Thailand:

http://www.jinsa.org/articles/articles.html/function/view/categoryid/1701/documentid/2802/history/3,2360,655,1701,2802

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/003381.php

To answer the original post.

Nasr was secretly transported to Egypt, because he was wanted, in Egypt, on terrorism-related charges.

Not because they would interrogate him any more thoroughly than we could.

He was wanted by the Egyptian authorities.

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