Cato Vogt-Kielland in Dagbladet deserves some kind of award for this article, headlined "Unable to bomb Saddam into silence", (no link, my emphasis):

It was another PR coup by Iraqi TV, after the Americans over the last week again and again have tried to bomb both Saddam and his propaganda TV into silence. Despite this, the Iraqi president was followed by TV cameras in empty streets that soon were filled with celebrating people.

How much of this was arranged, and whether it really was Saddam or one of his four or five lookalike's could yesterday evening not be determined. But the spontaneous joy among the people looked real enough.

Bjørn — your columns have proved to be a valuable guide to Norwegian opinion. If you should someday feel so inclined, I would love to hear your estimation of Norwegian newspapers online.

When I lived in Norway, way back in '71-'73, I spurned Aftenposten, which at that time was a dignified, somewhat conservative paper. Its politics lay too far to the right, at that time, to suit me. Dagbladet, at the time, was the paper that students at Blindern seemed to favor. Meaning, its slant was toward the left. VG was a tabloid that no one with intellectual pretensions would want to be caught reading back then.

After a long absence, I have returned as an observer of Norwegian life and opinion, and have discovered that Aftenposten and Dagbladet have changed character. So it seems to me. Aftenposten now, to my surprise, seems to be the more anti-American of the two papers. Dagbladet is more tabloid in character than it once was. I have not looked often at VG or NRK's page.

Which Norwegian online papers or magazines are worth reading, do you think, for a person who is interested in knowing what Norwegians are thinking about world events and trends? I can read Norwegian, and so language is not a problem.

"But the spontaneous joy among the people looked real enough."

This comes from years of practice. The knowledge your relatives may be killed if you don't show the correct amount of joy is a strong inducement to give a performance worthy of an Academy Award.

Regards,
Chris J.

"It was another PR coup by Iraqi TV, after the Americans over the last week again and again have tried to bomb both Saddam and his propaganda TV into silence. "

I guess he doesn't understand how easy it is to broadcast from any location on the planet earth as long as you have the equipment, which our esteemed ex president Clinton sold him during his term...along with helping build the Nuclear Reactors in North Korea, reducing the military to a skeleton crew, eliminating the security at our nuclear research facilities (he made it pretty easy for those hard drives at the Los Alamos weapons lab to walk out the door) and losing the nuclear football.

"But the spontaneous joy among the people looked real enough."

Chris Josephson : This comes from years of practice. The knowledge your relatives may be killed if you don't show the correct amount of joy is a strong inducement to give a performance worthy of an Academy Award.

Excellent point and one I wish more warbloggers would remember when they report the enthusiastic welcome given to American soldiers. Instead, it's all Ooh-la-la! They _like_ us! They really _like_ us!!!

I'm sure Iraqis are/will be glad to be rid of Saddam. I really doubt they like being invaded by a foreign military and I'm less convinced this enthusiasm for having ditched Saddam will carry over into doing what the US government wants them to do in the future.

Michael Farris: God bless, dude. Maybe next time around God will give you a brain and a heart to go with the body you used to type that comment.

Gill: Aftenposten and Dagbladet are still good bets for staying on top of the Norwegian print media. Dagbladet is the more anti-American of the two, and ironically the one I like best. Aftenposten is centre-right, ideologically speaking, and fairly dull.

Try also http://nettavisen.no - a web only tabloid. Not much on opinion, but a much better source for online news than the other web editions.

Too bad you're missing out on TV2, though. Its debate programs provide just about the only good alternative from the right to the uniform centre-left-to-hard-left print media, (and to NRK, which is somewhat left of Aftenposten, and just as dull. Can't believe we're still forced to pay for it.)

ct: Hey, no personal insults, remember? If all you can think of replying to someone who disagrees with you is that he doesn't have a brain, then don't write. I mean it.

Bjorn: stick it. Dumbshit.

Bjorn, obviously you're not a dumbshit. Yet, your school marm scolding is a little tiresome. Some people are so asinine dumb (and even a little worse in that they seem to have an instinct to always hate what represents freedom) that answering them with argument is meaningless.

You should probably ban me from your site, though. I'm sure I won't follow your rules any time soon...

ct, no cal : "God bless, dude. Maybe next time around God will give you a brain and a heart to go with the body you used to type that comment."

Sorry for the splash of cold water, ct no cal. The thoughts though are Iraqi and not just mine. It's what I've been hearing from a friend and co-worker. She's glad Saddam is gone (he's why she's in Europe now), suspicious of long term American involvement in her country and (her words more or less) knows her countrymen too well to believe the showy displays going on now or to expect that they'll continue indefinitely.

And maybe next time around God will give you some balls and you'll use your real name instead of hiding behind an alias.

scold = chide, reprimand

chide = to harrass, nag

nag = to find fault or complain in an irritating, wearisome, or relentless manner

schoolmarm = strict and priggish

prig = one who displays or demands [among other things] exaggerated propriety (conformity to standards of proper behaviour or manners)...especially in a self-righteous or irritating manner

It's probably the left-wing socialist politically-correct environment of >>>enforced sensitivity

(If you justify your behaviour it will be a typical reaction of someone who lives in the above-described type of society...)

Michael Farris: Yeah, I'm the only person who uses a screenname on the internet. Anyway, the name 'Michael Farris' is suppose to intimidate?

And if your original point was that Arabs tend to be ungrateful, resentful, eternally juvenile and often murderous (not to mention filthy and ignorant) delinquents then...why of course they are...

ct: It's possible that Michael Farris is a complete idiot. I don't think he is, but it's possible. The world is full of idiots, and some of them are bound to show up around here. But even if it's true, you're simply not allowed to point it out in my blog. I've been using discussion forums for eight years. I've been to great ones, and I've been to bad ones. One of the most important differences between them is the level of civility. My favourite, (a Norwegian BBS that was closed in 1997), was run after almost exactly the same rules as the the ones I've posted below. It could be that it's not possible to create good forums like that on the web, forums that combine widely differing opinions and a civil tone, because of the more anonymous nature of the web. But I'm going to try damn hard, and if I fail, I'd rather shut off the comment section alltogether than watch it turn into Usenet.

So if you're not going to follow that very simple ban against personal insults, you are not welcome here. I won't ban you yet, but I'll start deleting messages next. I don't want to see you leave, but if that sounds unreasonable to you, save yourself the trouble and stop posting here.

Bjorn, out of curiosity, what is the reaction in Norway to today's events? The toppling of the statue of Saddam Hussein in Paradise Square in Baghdad by Iraqis (with help from the U.S. Marines), the jubilant Iraqis cheering and welcoming the Americans as liberators, all are going to be pretty hard for the anti-American types to explain away...

ct, no cal:
"Michael Farris: Yeah, I'm the only person who uses a screenname on the internet. "

My old gym teacher wasn't the only guy to spit and scratch his nuts in public, it didn't make it any prettier.

"Anyway, the name 'Michael Farris' is suppose to intimidate?"

No, it's just that I don't hide behind anonymity. I put my name on anything I write, good or bad. Try it some time, coward.

"And if your original point was that Arabs tend to be ungrateful, resentful, eternally juvenile and often murderous (not to mention filthy and ignorant) delinquents then...why of course they are..."

That's not even close to my original post. You probably should try to reading it a few more times, it might sink in.

Do I have to point this out again? There are no idiots here. There are no _cowards_ here. There are idiots and cowards elsewhere, but anyone who writes a comment in my blog is in a no-idiot, no-coward zone. Even if they insulted you first.

I'm getting pretty pissed off now. This petty squabble is of no interest to anyone but the two readers involved. It is junk. Adding to it creates more junk. I don't want junk in my blog.

Bjorn: "Do I have to point this out again? (cut)I'm getting pretty pissed off now."

My deepest apologies to you, Bjorn. I won't let it happen again. It was immature of me, I won't let myself be provoked again. Please hold me to that.

Michael: No problem. That's why I don't want personal insults. Once somebody starts, it lowers the treshold for everyone else to do it too.

*Moderator hat off*

Barcodeking: The images from Baghdad has been all over the news here as well. I'm not sure what the reaction will be. There'll be another of those "big, worldwide peace protests" on Saturday. The last one brought 60 000 in Oslo. I suppose we'll see what effect the liberation has on people's enthusiasm for Saddam's peace. (Or maybe the demo will transform itself magically into another anti-American cause. How about "Stop the occupation. Democracy in Iraq now!" Remember: You can always blame the Americans.)

For the moment, I do not think the Iraqis care who is getting rid of the Hussein dictatorship. And I am sure that since it will take most of a year to put together a government, the protestors will continue on.

But I think the Iraqis will also remember the nations that wanted to keep Saddam in power at any cost.

And some of those nations will also take heed. Already the Israeli press is talking about a meeting with Jordan officials at which opening an oil pipeline to Haifa, closed for the last fifty years, was discussed this week.

You deleted that last post, Bjorn...? What did you see in it that was out of bounds...?

I take back saying you aren't a dumbshit. By the way, this current war won't go to any American's heads. We've done similar things many times in the last 100 years and more. It's not unusual.

Dipshit.

ct: Did you read my reply to Michael? "This petty squabble is of no interest to anyone but the two readers involved. It is junk. Adding to it creates more junk. I don't want junk in my blog."

You added more junk by continuing an officially designated junk thread, (which also is wildly off-topic), though for once you didn't actually insult your opponent. Now will you please let this issue die?

Moderator as 'offended prig' is not a good moderator. You also cloak a wounded vanity in your claims of objective policing.

The best of Norway came to America. The prigs stayed behind.

John Anderson: "But I think the Iraqis will also remember the nations that wanted to keep Saddam in power at any cost."

I agree, and it's not just nations. Some bloggers noted that today newly liberated Iraqis looted not just Baath offices and government offices, not just the office of the obscenity that Uday made of the Iraqi Olympic movement (by torturing athletes with the audacity to lose), but also the offices of the United Nations. I think Iraqis know very well that it was through the UN that opponents of this campaign were working to keep Saddam in power.

This throws an interesting light on claims by Germany and France that the UN simply MUST have a central role in building a new Iraq. It was reported today that a camera crew from Al-jazeera, the leading *arab* satellite news service, was chased by an angry mob out of Basra and all the way to the border of Kuwait, for being too sympathetic to Saddam in their news coverage. It may be that if a team shows up in Iraq any time soon saying, "Greetings! We're from the United Nations, and we're here to help you!" they may get the same treatment.

Let's hope the UN - and Germany - does only the humanitarian aid thing.
Found at Command Post a couple of days ago -

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/002/501nlmdb.asp UN+EU=DISASTER After 4 years on Kosovo nothing works - via http://www.command-post.org/oped/archives/004232.html 'Kosovar journalist Beqe Cufaj, German correspondent for Koha Ditore, summed up the situation eloquently on March 23: "This morning when Berlin announced that the U.N. secretary general and the Security Council have tasked Germany and its government with compiling an urgent plan for humanitarian aid to postwar Iraq, a Kosovar could not help but shudder. . . .Let us hope this really involves humanitarian aid and nothing else. . . . Because if the Iraqi people have to undergo anything like what we have in Kosovo, God help them. . . . That should be the message to the Iraqis from the Kosovars, a people experienced with the U.N. and exhausted by life in UNMIKistan!" '

Lots more, such as a powewr plant that was undamaged when the UN went in four years ago is not operating correctly today and the UN saying electricity must be imported: that plant used to export power...

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I've basically been doing nothing worth mentioning. Not much on my mind. Nothing seems worth thinking about. Maybe tomorrow. I just don't have anything to say. More or less nothing happening today.

I haven't been up to anything today. Maybe tomorrow. Whatever. Not that it matters. Pfft.

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